Why being an Engineer means nothing in this country

Soldato
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I used to work at Atkins, part of the rather large engineering consultancy. Had to smile when the printer broke and an email from one of the admin guys was circulated that 'an engineer had been called to fix it'. He works in the same office as the bulk of the staff so if he doesnt get it, I dont think anyone else would.
 
Caporegime
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Oh, because doing an original piece of research on some area of art history is SOOO much more difficult than going through all the training a physician goes through!

Medicine is a 5 year degree. A PhD is 4 year BSc, 1-2 year MSc, 4 year PhD minimum (few people I kow do it in less than 4.5, in the US 5-7 is more usual).

Hence a PhD is a higher qualification that take much longer to achieve.

Not ever PhD is in Ar History, that is irrelevant.
 
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Permabanned
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I used to work at Atkins, part of the rather large engineering consultancy. Had to smile when the printer broke and an email from one of the admin guys was circulated that 'an engineer had been called to fix it'. He works in the same office as the bulk of the staff so if he doesnt get it, I dont think anyone else would.

The problem is that the English language has evolved as it always has over the years. It's too late to stop the word engineer applying to things you don't want it to, it already has the 'other' meaning now. His use of the word was perfectly valid in modern English.

Your only hope is to think up a new word to calm your fragile egos if it really bothers you that much. ;)
 
Associate
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I have decided I like it when I go the pub and someone says "So what do you do?" and I say "I'm a Mechanical Engineer" They say that they are to as they fix washing machines and ask what i do? My current answer is "I optimise centrifugal compressor design and selection for oil and gas companies, yeah last week i sized $100millions worth on machinery."

Wether or not people call themselves engineers, technicians or sparkies, most of them couldn't do what i do on a daily basis. Where as i could do what they do with little training. The people that give out the jobs know this thats why they wont be offered my job.

They can call themselves whatever they choose.
 
Soldato
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I Can see exactly where you are coming from, Im certianly not an engineer and would never try and say i was but when i worked for a call centre on their Technical department, Simply we helped customer Trouble shoot and regain their viewing, it drove me bonkers when old fuddy duddys would say are you the engineer. WHAT? if i was an engineer i wouldnt be in a damn call centre on a pitance of a wage you Clown.
 
Associate
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I have decided I like it when I go the pub and someone says "So what do you do?" and I say "I'm a Mechanical Engineer" They say that they are to as they fix washing machines and ask what i do? My current answer is "I optimise centrifugal compressor design and selection for oil and gas companies, yeah last week i sized $100millions worth on machinery."

Wether or not people call themselves engineers, technicians or sparkies, most of them couldn't do what i do on a daily basis. Where as i could do what they do with little training. The people that give out the jobs know this thats why they wont be offered my job.

They can call themselves whatever they choose.

You sound qualified, why dont you come and make me cups of tea.....
 
Soldato
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An engineering degree usually lasts 4 years including the Masters year to achieve recognition from the body of Chartered Engineers, CEng. An engineering degree is very demanding and not many people get through to become a chartered engineer. It involves problem solving techniques, heavy mathematics and science principles, such as Physics (Mechanical & Aeronautical Engineering), Chemistry (Chemical Engineering) and Biology (Medical Engineering) amongst many other fields. In order to succeed you would need to understand concepts from first principles such as Newtons Laws of Motion and Fluid Viscosity. Bernoulli concepts and electrical laws such as Ohms and Faradays laws. How a capacitor works and how it can analogue real life situations. It also involves thorough research using the most accurate and precise instruments and skills that are not taught over night. Such as CAD programs (AutoCAD), programming software (MatLab), economic value engineering to determine the cost to usefulness ratio.
I’ve also missed a hell of a lot more but you get the message.

So that’s 4 years of hard learning, plus many more years of experience in the industry and you’re still learning some more.

Then a plumber/electrician/boiler man/car mechanic comes a long to your home to fix what ever needs fixing and calls him self an “engineer”.
When something goes wrong, these companies send out “engineers” to fix the problem.

It is now a case that engineers and these “call out helpers” are now categorised in the same league as non/semi-skilled.

Did those people go to university to get a degree? Did those people receive recognition (not that it even means anything any more)?

When was the last time a plumber/electrician/boiler man/car mechanic used the Euler Buckling Theory to design a bridge that will span the Severn River?

:mad:

You've hit the nail on the head there mate. I completely agree with you.
 
Associate
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Medicine is a 5 year degree. A PhD is 4 year BSc, 1-2 year MSc, 4 year PhD minimum (few people I kow do it in less than 4.5, in the US 5-7 is more usual).
That's probably a little pessimistic. Many people do 3yrs undergrad, then move onto a PhD and finish in 3yrs. In fact, the dept. I work in only provides 3yrs of funding for PhD students. The situation in America is entirely different, where the PhD will entail a large teaching portion and also a large learnt portion (to make up for a lack of specialisation during their undergrad), so you cant really compare the two.

With regards the OP: companies call people engineers to elevate the status of the job. Whilst I imagine this might be a little irksome for someone who's spent years attaining an engineering degree, it's not really going to make any difference to your life. As has been mentioned, the people who matter (i.e your prospective employers) will know the difference.
 
Soldato
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And you will only get an engineering position of responsibility with a degree, at least Masters level.

I cant agree with that. Many of my colleagues were HND old school engineers, some from technical apprentices who worked up through the drawing offices and now are Airbus certified signatories for dossiers relating to wing design and installation processes for specific aircraft. Pretty responsible. My design engineering manager responsible for the bidding of design related packages (rather than the larger stress analysis packages typical for the company) was also involved in managing the department size and recruiting also came from a similar background.
 
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Soldato
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Electrical engineering is a degree subject!

Electricians calling themselves engineers is not correct however I am an electician and during my 4 year apprenticeship I had to do electrical engineering to 2nd year university level.

Being an Electrician is not an unskilled job.







:mad:
 
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Associate
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So you knew it wasn't accredited when you started it? That makes the difference between knowing it wasn't, yet doing it forseeing future accreditation (which I have no problem with) and not even knowing what future prospects your course offers within your industry of choice (which is a bit dumb).

When I did mine, it was accredited by 2 engineering ones (which I wanted at least) with potential for ARB exam exemption as well (which I wasn't fussed about at the time). In the end, we never got the ARB one, which I eventually came round to wanting, so I had to do all the paperwork stuff and sit an external exam, so I know about procedures you had to go through.


In general, when someone tells me they work in engineering, I usually get them talking about what level of engineer they are or aim to be (incorporated, chartered, etc) and what insitution they are a member of. That usually sorts them out.


Like I said my course was the only one in Europe like it and pretty much 98% of people who graudate have a job lined up when they finish in our field. The 2% just happen to be lazy and assume people will ask them for jobs.
 
Associate
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Exactly.

I was meaning you don't just do a degree and get chartered. You obviously need the degree.

For Mechanical Engineers, (IMechE) to become a fellow, which is required to be allowed to use the Title CEng (mechanical) in the UK, you must complete an IMechE accredited degree (3 or 4 years) and then Initial Professional Development scheme(or monitored pofessional development scheme), with the time requiried on the scheme dependant on which length of degree you take.

I don't know about other disciplines but I've heard there are also exams.

Who really cares what people think? So long as companies aren't recruiting sky technicians into engineering positions what does it matter?






IMO as chartered engineer is protected, it doesn't matter that engineer isn't/


It's 4 years experience from the date of graudation to become a chartered engineer. Also you must be at least 25 to apply. I'm too iccle to apply at the minute.
 
Soldato
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It's 4 years experience from the date of graudation to become a chartered engineer. Also you must be at least 25 to apply. I'm too iccle to apply at the minute.

Technically that is not correct. You need at least 4 years with the right proveable competances and experience which some will not get in the 4 years since they have graduated.
 
Associate
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I'm torn on this subject, my old man is an Electrical Engineer and academically he's bloody bright - mathematically far better than me. I work in IT and jobs I've held in the past have had titles like "Infrastructure Engineer". If I was ever asked what I do I would always say "Oh I work in IT" I couldn't bring myself to say "Oh yeah I'm an infrastructure engineer" because tbh I never felt that I was anywhere near his level.

However before I left the UK, I was the lead "engineer" on a large backup project for a FTSE 100 company and suddenly it hit me, that the things I know would take years for someone like my old man to learn. And if I'm honest I don't think he could because although he's mathematically bright he doesn't have the IT common sense kind of ability that I have.

In short I think it's ok to be an Engineer even if you're not registered with an official body. As long as you use your head to solve their issue then you are doing the same thing. I suspect that what the OP has a real issue with is the lack of salary difference between various engineers!
 
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