My DSL connection gets even worse..

Man of Honour
Joined
17 Oct 2002
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159,534
Hi guys,

I posted some time ago about problems with my DSL connection. I'll quickly recap.

I've always had trouble getting a decent connection speed, usually 1500kbps was about my maximum. I'd learnt to live with it. In January, my connection speed increased to 2200kbps which was absolutely brilliant. No idea why, it just did. Unfortunately 2-3 weeks after it did this, I experienced a period of instability and since then, I have never again seen speeds anywhere near this.

My line would only connect at 1100-1300kbps. It was, however, very stable. I am unable to stream things from youtube very well, and watching BBC Iplayer etc is something that its rarely worth bothering with.

Today, I have noticed that I am now connected at just 704kbps. I've rebooted the router 4 times now and each time it syncs at a speed of about 704kbps. This is now ridiculously slow, slower than I've had for as long as I can remember.

I really don't know what to do about it, really. I have a very long line despite living only 5 miles from the centre of a city with a population of 270,000 so it's not as if I'm sat in a rural farmhouse miles from anywhere wondering why my internet sucks. My line is long because BT routed it to an exchange that is, quite literally, on the other side of the city.

Anyway, line stats at the moment..

DSL Flavour = ADSL over POTS
Reserved Bandwidth (kbit/s) up/down = 448 / 704

Properties
Output Power (dBm) up/down = 12.5 / 14.0
Attenuation (dB) up/down = 31.5 / 63.0
Noise Margin (dB) up/down = 11.0 / 15.5

I've tried new equipment - a DG834G V4 with the DGTeam firmware - to no avail.

Any ideas? :(

I already have all the extension wiring in the house disconnected, the master faceplate removed, and the router plugged directly into the socket and have had for years.

I'm with Plusnet, who probably couldn't care less so I doubt they'll help me.
 
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Soldato
Joined
5 May 2003
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UK
Fox, have you tried tweaking your SNR margin?

It looks like because you've had some instability it's put you onto a 15dB margin, so plenty of room for tweaking (I'm sat at 3dB on the same router at the minute).

Leaving it for a long period should improve matters, but these things quite often get stuck.

Have you removed the bell wire out of interest?
 
Soldato
Joined
13 Apr 2004
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5,086
Location
London
Well he's on 11 now, so 12 would mean he connects even slower. I would try 6db and see how stable it is.

You probably won't be able to fix the fluctuating connection speeds though, bar moving house or getting them to change exchanges (very unlikely). It sounds like the problem is external. You have already have a good router but maybe it might be worth trying a new splitter as some of them can be rubbish, they definitely aren't all made equal. You've eliminated internal wiring by connecting directly to the master socket.

My ADSL speed changes depending on the weather :)
 
Man of Honour
OP
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It just seems odd it's steadily getting worse. If it continues to degrade at the current rate, by Christmas I won't have an internet connection at all.
 
Associate
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267
Location
Torbay, UK
Your line attenuation figure suggests you are quite far from the exchange, around 4.6km, but should be able to achieve a sync of ~2000kbps.

As you are on ADSLMAX product your router should be trying to achieve a target SNR of 6dB, as has been stated. The higher noise margin, and drop in speed, are indicative of some instability, causing your target margin to be raised.

You are in between the devil and the deep blue sea here. Should you choose to report a fault, and end up with a BT engineer turning up, unless he finds and fixes said fault, you would be liable for ~£120 charge.

Do you have lots of re-syncs? Do you have noise on the line? Try the quiet line test. Is your line overhead, or underground? Have you noticed BT in the area working, or any utility companies working in the area since your problem started to appear?
 
Man of Honour
OP
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You are in between the devil and the deep blue sea here. Should you choose to report a fault, and end up with a BT engineer turning up, unless he finds and fixes said fault, you would be liable for ~£120 charge.

This concerns me.

Do you have lots of re-syncs?

Not often, no. Had a few this evening which reminded me my internet sucked and prompted this post. Prior to that the uptime on the line was circa 3 weeks.

Do you have noise on the line? Try the quiet line test.

How do I do this?

Is your line overhead, or underground? Have you noticed BT in the area working, or any utility companies working in the area since your problem started to appear?

It's an underground line to a property built in the mid 90's. I doubt a BT van has been in this area for some time, and I can only dream of the day when somebody like Virgin decides to cable the area I live instead of focusing all efforts on the inner city areas where nobody has a job anyway.. :p
 
Caporegime
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::1
Erm, you're only liable for the charge if the fault's found to be in your equipment. Your ISP should be making sure you've done that before they even arrange the visit...
 
Soldato
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[TW]Fox;16668175 said:
How do I do this?

Connect a good telephone into your master socket and dial 17070.

Last time I did it (though someone has told me that since then some of the options require an engineers PIN code to access), you hear a female pre-recorded voice say:

This circuit is defined as 01234 123123.
BT line test facilities.
Please press 1 for ring back, 2 for quiet line, 3 for fast test, 4 for fast cleanse or clear down.
[message repeats 3 times]


Choose option 2, Quiet Line Test

At this stage you should hear absolutely nothing. It would help if you pressed the 'Secrecy' / 'Mute Mic' button on your phone as your phones mic may introduce noise.

If you do hear some form of noise be it a Buzz, Hum or cracking and popping, make a note of the time.

Repeat the test at another time say in a few hours and then the next day at the same time. For instance if you do the test in the day then when it is dark then maybe again. This is just so that you can say when the problem is happening.

If you are confident that the problem is persistent and you know the times it occurs then ring up you phone service provider and report it as a fault.

If at the time that the engineer comes there is no fault, then mention the times which it does occur.

The problem with this type of fault is that it can be there but only occur at certain times, maybe when it is dark, or when it is raining, windy or something like that so you need to be sure when it occurs, to avoid being charged for the call out.

This is a Phone Service fault and not a ADSL fault, but it does effect your ADSL connection.
 
Associate
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267
Location
Torbay, UK
Erm, you're only liable for the charge if the fault's found to be in your equipment. Your ISP should be making sure you've done that before they even arrange the visit...

If BT come out and find no fault then you are liable for a charge.

I had a line fault, the BT engineer came out and reported no fault found, I was not home to argue the toss. Next day I phoned and they arranged for another engineer to come and he found the fault at a line cabinet between my house and the exchange.

On my next quarterly bill there was a ~£120 charge because the first engineer had closed the job as no fault found, took over a month to get refunded.
 
Associate
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Torbay, UK
@tolien

I'm sorry, but where do you get your information from exactly?

If BT come to fix a reported fault, and find no fault, they charge you for it, if they find the fault to be with your equipment or internal wiring they charge for it, they actually tell you this before they arrange an engineer visit, and that is why most ISPs are very anal about getting you to rule out any internal wiring or equipment, and actually showing a fault before contacting BT.
 
Soldato
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@tolien

I'm sorry, but where do you get your information from exactly?

If BT come to fix a reported fault, and find no fault, they charge you for it, if they find the fault to be with your equipment or internal wiring they charge for it, they actually tell you this before they arrange an engineer visit, and that is why most ISPs are very anal about getting you to rule out any internal wiring or equipment, and actually showing a fault before contacting BT.

This was my understanding of it as well.
 
Caporegime
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::1
I'm sorry, but where do you get your information from exactly?

For better or worse BT Wholesale and experience with more than a single line. Where are you getting yours from?

If BT come to fix a reported fault, and find no fault, they charge you for it

They don't. If we're going to be picky here, it's the ISP that gets charged if there's any charging to be done.
They might try, like in your case, but if you have an ISP with a clue you shouldn't be paying for an engineer visit just because no fault was found.

if they find the fault to be with your equipment or internal wiring they charge for it

and that is why most ISPs are very anal about getting you to rule out any internal wiring or equipment, and actually showing a fault before contacting BT.

Which is what I said.

Getting back to the actual topic, you could ask Plusnet to ask Wholesale to reset your SNR margin back to the default 6dB. You'd probably find it was less stable (it's almost certainly been increased as a product of past instability) but it would be faster. The fun will be finding anyone with a clue.
 
Soldato
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London
The length of the line is annoying, but it's not the cause of the problem. You should still get a stable 2000k-ish.

The SNR margin has been raised to 15dB due to repeated instability (i.e. disconnects). If you've still had disconnects today, there's an intermittent fault with the line (or the internal wiring). No line that's functioning properly will suffer disconnects on a 15dB margin.

Since it looks like the fault is intermittent, the problem is demonstrating to BT that it actually exists. I guess it may come down to luck in the appearance of the fault coinciding with an engineer investigating it :(
 
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