London Bridge Incident

Soldato
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Charlie Winter from the International Center for the Study of Radicalization on BBC news 5 minutes ago making a lot of sense. About the media reporting irresponsibly.
 
Soldato
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Charlie Winter from the International Center for the Study of Radicalization on BBC news 5 minutes ago saying something I've been saying for at least 5 years now. About the media reporting irresponsibly and ending up enticing more attacks. Amazing.
It's something many people have been saying for years but money talks and as long as they can make money, the media won't be changing their approach.
 
Man of Honour
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Why do you suppose it has moved over here? It's not the people, they've been here a long time.

Apart from all the ones who haven't. You can't have failed to notice that some immigration has occured in the last 20 years. Quite a lot of immigration, actually. There has also been a huge increase in the amount of communication worldwide, thanks to the big growth in the internet. So there's a lot more access to dramatic, compelling messages of an Islam that provides identity and purpose, simplicity and purity, a clear and evil enemy and a clear and righteous holy war against them. There has been a huge increase in the number of Muslims in the UK, which brings the combination of division and power and a greater chance of encountering those messages offline as well as online.

Killing for religion has been deeply embedded in Islam since its formation and even more so after Mohammed died. No foreign policy can stop that. It's built in by design.
 
Caporegime
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For which there will be a threshold test and that threshold will not be one random report from a member of the public and once someone is on the watch list they are not detained just monitored hence they could get into a van with a couple of mates and go run people over. Is it really that difficult to understand?
No, it's not. My point was to rebut the idea that the police are only interested in criminal deeds. As long as there are watch lists then clearly they should also be interested in criminal intentions and interests. This is fine, so long as the thresholds are reasonable, as you say.
 
Caporegime
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I wonder if the same thought would have worked against the Nazis?
If you're struggling to tell the difference between an army and a vague collection of civilians looking to cause chaos without regard for their own life, in pursuit of an idea then I can see why you might think this is easy.
 
Caporegime
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For starters, if a UK national goes to a foreign land and participates in any kind of warfare, they need to lose their right to enter the UK.

When fighting abroad, they can develop dangerous skills such as bomb making, knowledge of firearms etc.
Wait, what you just described would prevent our own armed forces from returning from a war we sent them to.

Think first, then type.
 
Soldato
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For starters, if a UK national goes to a foreign land and participates in any kind of warfare, they need to lose their right to enter the UK.

When fighting abroad, they can develop dangerous skills such as bomb making, knowledge of firearms etc.
What about those who go to fight against Isis? Or those professional mercenaries mostly ex service types employed around the world in Iraq and the like?
 

D13

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Apparently French Special Forces have a mission in Iraq and Syria; to hunt down and kill all French jihadis fighting for the Islamic State.

Thats understandable as they have suffered really sever terrorist events, but I think we need to be very clear that if British citizens go to other countries and become killers, then they cant come back here, too dangerous.
 
Soldato
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If your alluding to foreign policy, its not the only factor that has caused this, in fact its a very small part.
The whole world saw even back then what you are still refusing to accept. I was only a child when I heard some guy on the TV talking about how the UK and US getting involved hand-in-hand in the middle east and the oil will have to pay back in blood in couple of decades. The Russians got into that as well but they have the stomach to deal with the consequences, UK simply does not.

The British people love to call things as they are which is a great trait but usually only as long as it doesn't involve them...
 

D13

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Wait, what you just described would prevent our own armed forces from returning from a war we sent them to.

Think first, then type.

Obviously our armed forces are sanctioned by the government and the public. But you knew what I was saying your just looking for opportunities to put people down.
 
Caporegime
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What about those who go to fight against Isis? Or those professional mercenaries mostly ex service types employed around the world in Iraq and the like?

Frankly I don't think it's wise to let people leave the country to fight for a militia group and then return back to normal life here, it's such a complex collection of groups and allegiances to start with, and it would be really difficult to figure out which groups people fought for. If they want to go and fight in Syria and it's not as part of a British Army deployment then they can't really expect to come back. You can't just take citizenship away though and I doubt Syria are offering much in the way of citizenship at the moment, so it's definitely a tricky one.
 

D13

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What about those who go to fight against Isis? Or those professional mercenaries mostly ex service types employed around the world in Iraq and the like?
Even if they go to fight against Isis, we dont know what kind of ideology they will develop, e.g before people went to fight isis in syria, then on tv we see the rebels eating peoples hearts.
 
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If you're struggling to tell the difference between an army and a vague collection of civilians looking to cause chaos without regard for their own life, in pursuit of an idea then I can see why you might think this is easy.

I understand the difference, the issue is it has to be crushed now before it gets any bigger.

This decapitating death cult that is spreading across Syria and Iraq and you would sit idle?

Scary thought.
 
Caporegime
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Obviously our armed forces are sanctioned by the government and the public. But you knew what I was saying your just looking for opportunities to put people down.
But you didn't say that, you said something else. Your post serves as a good example of unintended consequences of knee jerk reactions. That's the opportunity I seized.
 
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