Road Cycling

Soldato
Joined
25 Oct 2006
Posts
5,386
EDIT: WTF. My Veloviewer total is different. 4031 miles. 231 hrs & 152,240 ft elevation. So my Strava is missing a 30 mile, 2 hour & 1896ft ride! Considering Veloviewer is populated from Strava I don't quite understand... :confused::eek::o

They likely pull from slightly different sources. API view vs already cached totals view. Ask Strava support to recalculate.

Google gave me a 2018 timeline. They got my hours on bike near enough correct (despite a lot of the time just classifying me a "moving" when you look in detail)... however they only logged about half the mileage.
 
Soldato
Joined
24 Jul 2003
Posts
5,664
Location
floating down the Liffey
Providing you're spending on quality carbon (with the price tag!) then they may even be lighter. But don't count on it!

My 60mm Chinese Carbon rims from eBay are the same weight as a set of Zipp 404 Firecrest and a quarter of the price at ~£400. They also have better braking than my now sold Zipp 808s.

You don't need to spend big money on carbon clinchers unless you are specifically trying to build a bling bike. Differences in aerodynamics between wheels of the same depth is marginal at best.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
3,123
Location
Fife, Scotland
Giant wheels are gash anyway. The PR2 which came on my Defy 1 2015 where sub-standard to the cheapy £100 Campagnolo Khamsin I replaced them with! Still around 11kg with them fitted (alloy frame) but switching them out to Shimano RS81 dropped the weight to around 10kg, made it feel much more lively/climbing worthy. Although not strictly 'lightweight'!

Yea indeed, in comparison with rotors there's around 600 grams the difference.
I've replaced a few things on my 2016 advanced, weight is probably still on the high side compared to most on here but 8.4Kg isn't too bad with pedals and a garmin mount.

The PR2s have been relegated to the turbo trainer. :)
 
Soldato
Joined
29 Sep 2010
Posts
5,696
My 60mm Chinese Carbon rims from eBay are the same weight as a set of Zipp 404 Firecrest and a quarter of the price at ~£400. They also have better braking than my now sold Zipp 808s.

You don't need to spend big money on carbon clinchers unless you are specifically trying to build a bling bike. Differences in aerodynamics between wheels of the same depth is marginal at best.
Would you recommend clinchers over tubular? I've ran tubeless on mountain bikes before with good effect and sadly had a few punctures on road with my road bike, just never got around to running a tubeless setup.

are the hubs provided with the chinese carbon rims alright or would you recommend changing them?

Edit if you've got a link to the chinese rims you've purchased and you could send me it via trust that'd be great :D
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
8,420
Location
Hereford
Threshold to work this morning after already running late (fitting bike rack & bike to car for the other half), then ripped my overshoe wide open on my chainring... Wow neoprene tears easily once caught, doesn't it?! :o Then my spare overshoes the zip was seized as they've obviously been put away damp... Doh! Mad rush then to find any other pairs I'd stashed away (found some thankfully!). So overshoe shopping, prefer Sealskinz. The open sole ones are best. Anyone spotted any on deals?

It's not the frame that's the issue - it's the rear brake. The power pod on the inside of a left hand crank solution (stages/4iiii etc) fouls the rear brake, because the rear brake is BB mounted rather than seat stay mounted. Bit of a pain, there are solutions (change the rear brake to a TRP), but it's a bit of a faff. Easier solution is just to opt for pedals solution instead.
Or one of the 'crank' solutions which doesn't have a 'crank arm' pod, like those with a crank spider pod, which would also give you dual sided, but admittedly changing your nearly-new cranks/spider. Should be some better deals on Powertap P1 pedals as the P2 gets around more, but I've not seen many yet...

Fair enough makes sense :) Going to look into this in more detail when I finish work. might wait for a 15% ebay code and pull the trigger
The guys here can advise on sellers/brands/safe chinese carbon as they can really be a minefield. Feedback & reviews should guide your purchase, not really prices! That's why many go for Zuus and similar - some backup, trouble free warranty/support/hassle.

Equally I've spoken to a number of local riders who've had build/quality issues with Prime carbon wheels (and other brands, names escape me), one guy even going through 2 sets of Hunts where the surfaces delaminated. All where sorted under warranty without issue. Can't comment on if the same issues would've been as easy to resolve with chinese carbon from ebay sellers. Part of me hopes so. Anyone here with them needed to use the warranty?

They likely pull from slightly different sources. API view vs already cached totals view. Ask Strava support to recalculate.

Google gave me a 2018 timeline. They got my hours on bike near enough correct (despite a lot of the time just classifying me a "moving" when you look in detail)... however they only logged about half the mileage.
Good point, not that fussed about it really! Might be a different story if it put my Strava under 4k for the year lol ;)

Where do you see the Google stats side of things?

My 60mm Chinese Carbon rims from eBay are the same weight as a set of Zipp 404 Firecrest and a quarter of the price at ~£400. They also have better braking than my now sold Zipp 808s.

You don't need to spend big money on carbon clinchers unless you are specifically trying to build a bling bike. Differences in aerodynamics between wheels of the same depth is marginal at best.
Totally agree, you did well, but then equally if going to Ebay, searching for '60mm carbon clinchers' and buying the cheapest could equally have bought badly made, heavy and dangerous wheels. :o :)

Interesting comments on braking, I'd always wrongly assumed the premium race wheels (with their myriad of development and technologies) would have better braking than 'standard' carbon wheels.

Yea indeed, in comparison with rotors there's around 600 grams the difference.
I've replaced a few things on my 2016 advanced, weight is probably still on the high side compared to most on here but 8.4Kg isn't too bad with pedals and a garmin mount.

The PR2s have been relegated to the turbo trainer. :)
Obviously depending on where the weight is saved on a wheel can have massive differences. 300 grams saved on a rim is huge (rotational weight) so can make a wheel feel massively different, but equally the same weight saved on a hub (far less rotational) is far more marginal.

Also worth bearing in mind that many of the 'premium aero race wheels' are not actually that light! A set of £1500 303 Firecrests is still almost 1500g. Enve 3.4 on R45 hubs at £3000 are around 1400g. Shimano DA C35 £1500 Tubulars are still (slightly) over 1500g. Some of the lightweight carbon climbing wheels get to around 1200g for around the same cost, but there's obviously reasons nobody races grand tours on them! Weight is not everything. :)
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
28 Oct 2006
Posts
12,456
Location
Sufferlandria
EDIT: WTF. My Veloviewer total is different. 4031 miles. 231 hrs & 152,240 ft elevation. So my Strava is missing a 30 mile, 2 hour & 1896ft ride! Considering Veloviewer is populated from Strava I don't quite understand... :confused::eek::o

I have the same problem, Veloviewer shows about 35 miles more than strava.
I checked through all my data and found a ride which exactly matches the difference in mileage+time between Veloviewer and Strava - it's a ride which I didn't record but my GF did and she tagged me in it so I could add it to my profile.

Edit: actually, that's not the only ride I was tagged in. We did a 2 day trip and she recorded both days and tagged me in them. Looks like 1 of them is included in my total but not the other.
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
24 Jul 2003
Posts
5,664
Location
floating down the Liffey
Totally agree, you did well, but then equally if going to Ebay, searching for '60mm carbon clinchers' and buying the cheapest could equally have bought badly made, heavy and dangerous wheels. :o :)

I bought from a reputable supplier that had been recommended by @SoliD. I didn't just buy some random wheels off eBay!;)

Would you recommend clinchers over tubular? I've ran tubeless on mountain bikes before with good effect and sadly had a few punctures on road with my road bike, just never got around to running a tubeless setup.

are the hubs provided with the chinese carbon rims alright or would you recommend changing them?

Edit if you've got a link to the chinese rims you've purchased and you could send me it via trust that'd be great :D

Do you mean tubular or tubeless as they are different things. The hubs used are Novatec hubs which have been absolutely fine for me so far. Some of the vendors let you choose hubs for extra cost such as Chris King, DT Swiss, carbon-ti etc.

I got my wheels originally from the eBay shop but they now have a website... https://www.carbonspeedcycle.com/

Others that people recommend on Weight Weenies are... https://www.wheelsfar.com/ and https://www.lightbicycle.com/
 
Soldato
Joined
29 Sep 2010
Posts
5,696
I bought from a reputable supplier that had been recommended by @SoliD. I didn't just buy some random wheels off eBay!;)



Do you mean tubular or tubeless as they are different things. The hubs used are Novatec hubs which have been absolutely fine for me so far. Some of the vendors let you choose hubs for extra cost such as Chris King, DT Swiss, carbon-ti etc.

I got my wheels originally from the eBay shop but they now have a website... https://www.carbonspeedcycle.com/

Others that people recommend on Weight Weenies are... https://www.wheelsfar.com/ and https://www.lightbicycle.com/
Ah, need to do my research, I assumed clinchers were tubeless ready and tubular were not, had a google to identify the differences :)

Thanks for the link appreciated, will take a look into them tonight.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
8,420
Location
Hereford
I bought from a reputable supplier that had been recommended by @SoliD. I didn't just buy some random wheels off eBay!;)
That's what I was hinting at! ;)

Hmm, they do a $50 suction cup car roof mount for bikes. I want to believe... :D
:D

You try it first & let me know yeah!

They sent me an email from the Location Tracking they do on my phone. They tend to do it every month, but I got an annual summary through yesterday too.

https://www.google.com/maps/timeline

I'm not sure if you can get the summary view online. Only seems to be in email.
Hmmm, interesting. I knew googlemaps did some clever stuff as mine has got 'Home' and 'Work' flagged/plotted without me actually doing anything...! Much of my other GPS points are all over the place (bad signals around these hills!) as well as a bunch totally absent. I don't get the emails so obviously may not be seeing the same thing as you! :)

Ah, need to do my research, I assumed clinchers were tubeless ready and tubular were not, had a google to identify the differences :)

Thanks for the link appreciated, will take a look into them tonight.
Clinchers are generally the 'standard' Tubes & tyres. Self explanatory! Tubeless are the same 'clincher' type of fitment (same rims) but tyres made in such a way they don't leak air like 'standard'. As well as 'tubeless ready' rims being designed as such with specially designed rims (many different standards for this). Technically you can make any rim tubeless and any tyre can be run tubeless. But it is not advised.

Tubulars are totally different - effectively a self contained 'tube' of a tyre (think an inner tube) which is glued to a rim. The rim doesn't need a 'hook' (like your standard and tubeless clincher rims). So the rims can be made lighter due to having less material, with the tubular tyres also lighter (no innertube required), while also not 'popping' off the rim when they go flat, so they can be ridden on a certain degree while deflated (which is why the majority of pro racers ride them). Some tubeless tyres are starting to challenge this - along with the reduction in weight, but until there's something which tubeless can do (which tubulars can't), most pro riders have stayed away (at least in races).

EDIT: Have a good weekend all! Zwift for me I expect.
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
23 Nov 2004
Posts
10,646
My Veloviewer was similar in that it was different to Strava and the add on Stravistix so who knows how it all works

I'm gubbed today after a walk yesterday, 50 miles in the evening and going back to work today on 4 hour sleep :o
 
Soldato
Joined
5 Jul 2007
Posts
5,492
Location
London
WRT chinese carbon clinchers, I've had a few pairs too, and they look fine and serve a purpose if you're tight on cash, but imo don't come close to a decent set of well built rims and hubs. Chinese clinchers seem to all come on novatechs too which are utterly average at best. On brake tracks theres been a fair bit of progress with textured brake tracks in the last few years. Zipp showstopper, Enve NBT etc all add a bit extra braking performance over the smooth brake tracks of old.

Personally, and having recently warrantied a very expensive carbon wheel for a full free replacement I personally wouldn't bother using them for anything other than the commuter/winter hack, even then something cheaper and alloy probably makes more sense. If its for best bike and actual performance is important, then go for a decent handbuilt rim of appropriate depth with a good hub, the difference will be very apparent, not to mention the backup of warranty etc should the worst happen.
 
Soldato
Joined
24 Jul 2003
Posts
5,664
Location
floating down the Liffey
At the end of the day you have to decide what you want the wheels for, how much you want to spend and where you perceive the value to be.

Of course, Steve the wheel-builder in Kent is going to say his handbuilts with the exact same components are better and more reliable than Mr Wong's from China. He wants your money. Obviously, the Pro and boutique-level wheel brands will claim their latest £2000 wheelset will give you an extra 3% watt savings + BJ whilst you ride. And the people who've bought these well-marketed, over-priced wheels will always rationalise why their pricey wheels were worth it through some subjective measure.:)

All that being said, I don't ride Chinese carbon clinchers on my best bike.:o:p
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
3,123
Location
Fife, Scotland
Thanks for reading pal :)
Where in Fife are you? I'm from near Lochgelly originally.
I'm in the Leven area, not far. Although I've had my road bike since 2016 it was always a filler for days I wasn't running. But last year a mate wanted me to do some 100 mile Sportives with him so I ditched running to cycle more and it seems to have stuck...

Hoping to do more this year with a couple of Fife Sportives and that 205km looks out of range right now but an excellent goal. :)
 
Soldato
Joined
22 May 2003
Posts
10,855
Location
Wigan
WRT chinese carbon clinchers, I've had a few pairs too, and they look fine and serve a purpose if you're tight on cash, but imo don't come close to a decent set of well built rims and hubs. Chinese clinchers seem to all come on novatechs too which are utterly average at best. On brake tracks theres been a fair bit of progress with textured brake tracks in the last few years. Zipp showstopper, Enve NBT etc all add a bit extra braking performance over the smooth brake tracks of old.

Personally, and having recently warrantied a very expensive carbon wheel for a full free replacement I personally wouldn't bother using them for anything other than the commuter/winter hack, even then something cheaper and alloy probably makes more sense. If its for best bike and actual performance is important, then go for a decent handbuilt rim of appropriate depth with a good hub, the difference will be very apparent, not to mention the backup of warranty etc should the worst happen.

I have posted in the past with my experience;

I broke a Zipp 303 in a criterium, spoke pulled through the rim after an impact but the rim stayed in one piece. Even wth reduced repair cost not financial viable.

I replaced with Enve Classic 65s.

Had the brake track go bumpy in one area after riding/racing them. Warranty rebuilt old hubs onto new rims FOC and been fine since. Not needed to be trued (good job tubular internal nipples!) and I’ve done a few thousand km.




Riding a set of what would are higher end clincher alloy rims I do wonder if it is worth it.... To buy new estimate would be £800-1000 (£500 hubs, £200 rims, £100 spokes & nipples, £100 to build them).

Say a rim wears out, then you’ll be up for a lot of that cost to replace it as will throw new spokes on at the same time.

Or you can get something Chinese or branded such as a FFWD with a DT hub for ~£500.

When the rims worn out throw away and buy a new set of wheels. Heck, you could sell the used hubs for £100-200 I imagine.

The few questions around Chinese wheels or cheaper factory built would be durability, especially for heavy or powerful riders. The cheaper wheels usually come with fewer spokes to play on marketing (lighter & also cheaper).

My handbuilt set is 24/28 spoke rather than a typical 20/24, you may not have any choice buying off the shelf.

You could argue the hubs are also slightly better than the DT or whatever you could get from china (White industry with Ti freehub) if you have a custom bike then you can colour match the hubs etc but this is getting very marginal now!
 
Back
Top Bottom