When are you going fully electric?

Soldato
Joined
9 Mar 2003
Posts
14,236
I’d definitely have one of my top mechanics trained up and working on EVs/PHEVs now and getting my company known as an EV specialist ASAP.

It will be interesting to see where that market goes as all of the fundamentals are the same and all of the juicy HV stuff has an 8 year warranty.

It’s the control electronics which will be the weak points and the usual automotive electronics issues. It will add a new definition to computer says X diagnostics.

I can’t see anyone wanting to crack open a battery pack to deal with something like an out of warranty module failure outside of a dedicated facility any time soon.
 
Associate
Joined
14 Apr 2006
Posts
2,182
If BMW ever bother to release one I'll be in the queue. They are far too interested in wacky looking weird EV models instead sadly. I am very interested in the idea of a 545e though.

I am not anti EV - I am anti freedom of choice through legislating against the sale of ICE cars. As I have said before if it wasn't for the fact we bought it new not that long ago I'd have an electric Mini already.

Let EV replace ICE on merit not because the alternatives are illegal.

Without legislation though do you believe the legacy vehicle manufacturers would have much incentive to switch to EV power trains? Or would they just continue to churn out the same stuff that protects short term profits over everything else?

Is this no different (albeit a much bigger step change) to implementing Euro engine standards or banning leaded petrol.
 
Soldato
Joined
1 Apr 2003
Posts
11,890
Location
Northamptonshire
Let EV replace ICE on merit not because the alternatives are illegal.

That shows a clear misunderstanding of the situation. Many of the merits of EVs are not for the driver. Things like, CO2 emissions, particulate emissions, noise pollution, reliance on fossil fuels, the list goes on and on. It's a good example of an area where forms of government intervention makes sense.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
14,150
Location
West Midlands
I can’t see anyone wanting to crack open a battery pack to deal with something like an out of warranty module failure outside of a dedicated facility any time soon.

I'd expect a whole range of business dedicated to doing this will appear, just like you have now with refurbished gear boxes, or engines. I noted that there is a company in the US who specialise in fault finding Tesla battery packs, and go to individual cell level in order to repair a pack back to full health.
 
Soldato
Joined
22 Aug 2004
Posts
7,606
That shows a clear misunderstanding of the situation. Many of the merits of EVs are not for the driver. Things like, CO2 emissions, particulate emissions, noise pollution, reliance on fossil fuels, the list goes on and on. It's a good example of an area where forms of government intervention makes sense.

What part of an EV is not reliant on fossil fuels?
 
Man of Honour
Joined
17 Oct 2002
Posts
159,617
That shows a clear misunderstanding of the situation. Many of the merits of EVs are not for the driver. Things like, CO2 emissions, particulate emissions, noise pollution, reliance on fossil fuels, the list goes on and on. It's a good example of an area where forms of government intervention makes sense.

I actually understand that perfectly. The reason why EV has been decided as the way forward is for environmental reasons. Many of these reasons are valid and justified. However there is an acceptance that EV's are simply not as flexible, usable, simple or accessible as ICE engines amongst policymakers. This is something the early adaptors seem to be blind too - all they see is cheap zero tax fuel, subsidised list prices and the halo effect of being first with the latest new toy. All of which are valid reasons for wanting something - but not necessarily reasons that make it fair to say EV > ICE.

Other than a few obvious advantages, overall batteries are inferior to the end user to using an internal combustion engine. Which is why governments have decided only legislation, not technical progress, will force the change they want. So why must we keep pretending EV > ICE? It isn't. If it was the consumer would *want* to make the switch and the ICE engine would vanish due to lack of demand. But it won't, because no matter how many hoops you jump through, pulling up to a start of the art amazing charging station and having a Costa for 25 minutes simply isn't as convenient as gaining 500 miles of range in a matter of a few minutes. It will never be this convenient and left to it's own devices EV would never be anything more than a fringe on the market popular with urban drivers.

So governments feel they have no choice - they must ban the ICE because EV cannot stand alone without either legislation forcing no alternative or, currently, enormous tax breaks.

An ICE car effectively charges itself using a highly portable, easily stored and convenient liquid. No electric car will come close to this. We didn't need to ban steam for cars because the alternative was clearly so much better that nobody wanted it anymore. I cannot see how we can say the same about EV.

My personal view is that the pursuit of a 100% EV future is a fallacy - its good policy for people who don't ever have to implement it because it sounds awesome but I bet the date gets pushed back as there will be a sizeable portion of the planet for whom EV will never work. We should instead have pursued a more mixed approach - encouraging the use of low CO2, super efficient ICE in areas where the air pollution issue is less of a problem and on the other hand virtually mandating the use of electric or zero emissions power in urban areas. Is that as good for the environment as pure EV? No, it is not. But is it far more achievable? Yes, it is.
 
Soldato
Joined
22 Aug 2004
Posts
7,606
We didn't need to ban steam for cars because the alternative was clearly so much better that nobody wanted it anymore. I cannot see how we can say the same about EV.

Steam lorries were better than petrol and diesel ones, and the oil companies lobbied for a change in the law to make it all about axle weights.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
17 Oct 2002
Posts
159,617
Steam lorries were better than petrol and diesel ones, and the oil companies lobbied for a change in the law to make it all about axle weights.

Coal fired vehicles are massively less operationally convenient than diesel and petrol ones and the sheer man hours required to prepare a steam locomotive for duty versus just firing up a diesel engine were huge.
 
Soldato
Joined
22 Aug 2004
Posts
7,606
Coal fired vehicles are massively less operationally convenient than diesel and petrol ones and the sheer man hours required to prepare a steam locomotive for duty versus just firing up a diesel engine were huge.

That's not the point, they were far superior in terms of load haulage. They changed legislation to force them off the road. Steam lorries were very popular in the UK.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
21,068
because no matter how many hoops you jump through, pulling up to a start of the art amazing charging station and having a Costa for 25 minutes simply isn't as convenient as gaining 500 miles of range in a matter of a few minutes.
The majority of people are carrying around fuel in their car they don't need because they are not doing 500+ mile trips on a daily basis.
In 2019 , the average mileage travelled in a car per day was 20.7 miles .Yes there are outliers who travel LEJOG distances daily but the majority of people don't need more that 250 mile range for daily life. When they do travel longer distances a comfort break is something they would probably take anyway, even if they were in an ICE car.

Also, my EV can be fully charged every time I leave the house if I wanted. No need to visit a petrol station every x days/weeks. How convenient is that :) [no more diesel covered COVID hands from the pump :p ]


Think mobile phones.
If your phone battery only lasted a day but you can charge it at home, vs a phone battery which lasts a week but you have to charge it at a phone shop, which would you choose?
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom