Associate
Actually yes I think it was Rebel Code
. I would have bought the book and read the rest but I was/am skint 
.
Actually yes I think it was Rebel Code
. I would have bought the book and read the rest but I was/am skint .ade
A
ade
OP
A system requires the three above.
On your system what libc do you use? glibc?
what shell do you use? bash?
compiled by? gcc ?
Infact nearly all of the OS is GNU (sysvinit is not GNU but is GPL iirc), perhaps the programs you run on top of the OS aren't GNU such as X, KDE etc.
see http://ftp.gnu.org and find out how much of the OS is there. GNU also has other software outside of the OS which can be used such as gzip, gnuchess etc etc. Whatever your favourite distribution is the OS is mostly GNU based, with 'extras' on top, plus a linux kernel.
Yes indeed people (RedHat, Suse, bob-the-fish) add/change code to these original sources but they are still released as GNU's. Thats the point of opensource, change code and let others see.
I do see that microdistributions don't have to be GNU/linux , using uclibc busybox etc which aren't GNU. But for the most part normal systems use GNU/linux with lovely utils/apps on top.
Now class, if you return to page 51 we may continue with todays lesson.
Permabanned
Err excuse me?
I said
That to me is recognising the input of GNU, I'm not slagging off RMS et al, I think theyre great but I dont see that it should be GNU/Linux.
Quit trolling and grow up
Shak
I said
That to me is recognising the input of GNU, I'm not slagging off RMS et al, I think theyre great but I dont see that it should be GNU/Linux.
Quit trolling and grow up
Shak
ade
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ade
OP
Originally posted by Shak
Linux is the power behind the GNU tools
Shak
cough cough ... what ?
ade
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ade
OP
This is not trolling, but opening your eyes to the faults in your language surrounding opensource.
Learn from it and don't argue.
At no time have I directly said that any one person is responsible, it is the community in general. I too have faultered on various occations. But in this post I hope that one day you will learn that linux is not synonymous with opensource and you will recognise that GNU was here before linux. The full title being GNU/Linux is valid if and only if you use the GNU project as the basis of a distribution comprising a linux kernel.
Learn from it and don't argue.
At no time have I directly said that any one person is responsible, it is the community in general. I too have faultered on various occations. But in this post I hope that one day you will learn that linux is not synonymous with opensource and you will recognise that GNU was here before linux. The full title being GNU/Linux is valid if and only if you use the GNU project as the basis of a distribution comprising a linux kernel.
Grumpy
G
Grumpy
OP
RTF edit button 
Or...were you bumping/stirring when you didn't get a swift reply to your flamebait?
Ooh! I used the edit button Someone should go and grab Beaky, he appreciates a good old fashioned trolling
Or...were you bumping/stirring when you didn't get a swift reply to your flamebait?
Ooh! I used the edit button
Someone should go and grab Beaky, he appreciates a good old fashioned trolling ade
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ade
OP
Where did init go ?
or in singlemode /bin/sh perhaps.
getty, ifconfig, losetup, hostname, bind, cardmgr, fsck, mount, setserial, syslog, etc etc come way before login
I'd love to see login at pid 1. It would be very interesting indeed.
<perspective=n00b>
bah, its complicated enuf already, don't make it more so.
you tell someone you run linux... cool you tell someone you run gnuslashlinux... wtf?
yes, so these GNU people (i assume) have contributed a lot, but theres no point getting so hung up on it... i doubt they do it for the recognition. anyway, i'm probably talking gibberish (i usually am) so just ignore me + chill... its not the end of the world
</perspective>
bah, its complicated enuf already, don't make it more so.
you tell someone you run linux... cool
you tell someone you run gnuslashlinux... wtf?yes, so these GNU people (i assume) have contributed a lot, but theres no point getting so hung up on it... i doubt they do it for the recognition. anyway, i'm probably talking gibberish (i usually am) so just ignore me + chill... its not the end of the world
</perspective>
Soldato
TBH I do understand what you've said in your posts. Ppl do use 'Linux' as a generic term. But as Lucifer says, if you go round sayign "Oh I use gnuslashlinux" or whatever ppl tend to look at you like a total geek. I just say 'linux' as more ppl will know what I'm talking about. I know it's wrong. I don't like blank looks or being called a geek, so I'll stick to generic terms.
If you talk to ppl like that, you deserve to be totally ignored.
Permabanned
Mr ade, you are obviously a troll. But tell me this, I'd like to see a Linux machine run ANY of the GNU tools without the kernel.
This is why Linux is bigger than GNU in this case.
I agree with what you are saying about the power of GNU.
You are now trolling and I am going to ask for this thread to be closed.
Shak
This is why Linux is bigger than GNU in this case.
I agree with what you are saying about the power of GNU.
You are now trolling and I am going to ask for this thread to be closed.
Shak
Ferg
F
Ferg
OP
final word?
Hi,
I quite agree, the OS is called GNU/Linux (hey check my .sig!!).
However in the real world, people do not refer to it as GNU/Linux, In fact to the majorit of Linux users if you refered to GNU/Linux (verbally) they would say ".. instead of the old Linux?" (Geddit?).
Anyway to me, Linux refers to a lot more than just the kernel. OK the kernel is called Linux, but IMHO so is the OS.
Never heard of Ibiza being the capital of Ibiza?
OK it is a shame that RMS/FSF feel aggrieved that their work is not being credited, but in the interests in the popularisation of this thing we call linux, I think the simpler the better!!
Oh and on a lighter note, the original poster refers to dropping standards of english grammar. Well there are dropping standards of spelling as well. It's "Hearth" not Harth" (joke, honest!!!)
Cheers
Ferg
Hi,
I quite agree, the OS is called GNU/Linux (hey check my .sig!!).
However in the real world, people do not refer to it as GNU/Linux, In fact to the majorit of Linux users if you refered to GNU/Linux (verbally) they would say ".. instead of the old Linux?" (Geddit?).
Anyway to me, Linux refers to a lot more than just the kernel. OK the kernel is called Linux, but IMHO so is the OS.
Never heard of Ibiza being the capital of Ibiza?
OK it is a shame that RMS/FSF feel aggrieved that their work is not being credited, but in the interests in the popularisation of this thing we call linux, I think the simpler the better!!
Oh and on a lighter note, the original poster refers to dropping standards of english grammar. Well there are dropping standards of spelling as well. It's "Hearth" not Harth"
(joke, honest!!!)Cheers
Ferg
ade
A
ade
OP
Re: final word?
sorry being dyslexic does have its draw backs.
Originally posted by Ferg
It's "Hearth" not Harth"
Cheers
Ferg
sorry being dyslexic does have its draw backs.
ade
A
ade
OP
A 'linux machine' without a linux kernel is by definition impossible.
If a device is to run GNU tools without a linux kernel this is very easy, glibc is designed to run on multiple archs and kernels. Linux is just one of them.
simple:
linux 2.5.46 ~27mb compressed.
glibc 2.3 ~ 17mb compressed
gcc ~ 26mb
binutils ~ 10mb
So to even compile a linux kernel you need at least twice as much source as the kernel. Try building your own toolchain to compile a kernel for an arch other than the host. You will soon find the linux kernel to be a small part of what is needed to run a system.
Alas some people don't see beyond the blickered view that the linux kernel is the be all and end all of source which *must* be compiled in /usr/src/linux with /usr/include/asm -> /usr/src/linux/asm, which is very much not the case. The sooner people see that linux is just a 'module' that can be swapped in or out of a system. The further the development of opensource can continue.
By the way, trolling is slagging off someone or thing. I, however, am premoting discussion of matterial to do with opensource and language.
THIS IS TROLLING:
Perhaps I should stop this and go back to question/answer of lesser intellectual content about cdfs and needing to recompile my entire kernel for only one module as is the normal advice.
make clean dep oldconfig bzImage modules modules_install &
Q) Help my JFS root partiontion can't boot.
A) Use a boot disk, then recompile your kernel with CONFIG_BLK_DEV_LOOP=y and CONFIG_JFS_FS=m and CONFIG_BLK_DEV_INITRD=y so that you can boot an initrd image then load the JFS module and then mount your JFS root image on /
remember JFS can only do 4k block size at the moment so you will need to recompile your kernel again if you want to use anyother block size.
hmmm.
oh I forgot to recompile my kernel again, silly me. Will do that now before bedtime.
I use a lot of djb's tools in my system.
Should I now refer to my computer as running GNU\djb\Linux ?
As another point, why shall we credit the FSF or GNU for their 'amazing' tools that are essential to the OS - examine binutils, gcc et al and you will see how little current code is contributed my members of the FSF, and how much is contributed by large companies.
Without GNU, probably a linux wouldnt exist. However, GNU binutils isnt the only binutils, gcc isnt the only cc and glibc isnt the only c library.
In reality, the kernel IS the OS. The kernel requires a bootloader, but it neednt be GNU grub. Once the kernel is loaded and executing, you have yourself an OS. No further functionality is needed, no further programs need be loaded.
I suggest you go to your local library, check out a copy of Andy Tanenbaum's Modern Operating Systems, so you know what an operating system is before you actually start to argue about what it is.
Should I now refer to my computer as running GNU\djb\Linux ?
As another point, why shall we credit the FSF or GNU for their 'amazing' tools that are essential to the OS - examine binutils, gcc et al and you will see how little current code is contributed my members of the FSF, and how much is contributed by large companies.
Without GNU, probably a linux wouldnt exist. However, GNU binutils isnt the only binutils, gcc isnt the only cc and glibc isnt the only c library.
In reality, the kernel IS the OS. The kernel requires a bootloader, but it neednt be GNU grub. Once the kernel is loaded and executing, you have yourself an OS. No further functionality is needed, no further programs need be loaded.
I suggest you go to your local library, check out a copy of Andy Tanenbaum's Modern Operating Systems, so you know what an operating system is before you actually start to argue about what it is.
Hmmmm. Why do you take things so seriously ade?
Yes, that degree of accuracy might be needed in a dissertation or technical article, but on a casual forum where most people come to talk at ease, there is not a need to be so pedantic with information.
A great majority of people here do understand the difference and will go to that level of detail if required, but the generalisations allow a free flowing text that everyone understands with the underlying assumption of the true technical particulars.
Some things in life are automatically assumed but we all know the true meaning. We know that the number 2 is actually positive two, but we do not speak or write +2.
You may not class yourself as a troll, as there is no direct attack. The manner of your posts though, to me, indicates an argumentative approach rather than an debate.
Just chill dude, if people took everything in life as seriously as you, we would all be in trouble
Yes, that degree of accuracy might be needed in a dissertation or technical article, but on a casual forum where most people come to talk at ease, there is not a need to be so pedantic with information.
A great majority of people here do understand the difference and will go to that level of detail if required, but the generalisations allow a free flowing text that everyone understands with the underlying assumption of the true technical particulars.
Some things in life are automatically assumed but we all know the true meaning. We know that the number 2 is actually positive two, but we do not speak or write +2.
You may not class yourself as a troll, as there is no direct attack. The manner of your posts though, to me, indicates an argumentative approach rather than an debate.
Just chill dude, if people took everything in life as seriously as you, we would all be in trouble