HD-DVD/Blu Ray audio bitrates.

[Corasik]

I know that the new formats can include uncompressed audio tracks... But what are the 'standard' Dolby Digital, and DTS bitrates on these formats.

Are they sticking with the 'reduced bit rates' from DVD's

IE 448 for Dolby, and 768 for DTS.

Dolby standard permits 640 bitrate, and DTS supports 1536, and with full bitrate they should both sound a lot better than the reduced bitrate versions on the standard DVD's.

Just wondering really, as my decoder supports full bitrates on Dolby and DTS, but doesnt have TrueDolby, or DTS-HD support, and I honestly dont wish to upgrade it at the moment.

 

[james.miller]

ohh i had a link somewhere detailing it all. one second....

edit: ahh good old wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc

 

[Corasik]

Nice... I notice on the DVD they say optional 1.5Mbit for DTS... but DVD player says 448 for the DVD tracks, and 768 for all my DTS disks, none at 1.5Mbit.

DTS Mandatory at 1.5Mbit looks promising. Thanks

 

[james.miller]

yeah there arent so many 1.5mb dts films, probably less than 50 worldwide id expect

 

[FrankJH]

James I saw this before and something sems wrong (or its the way Im reading it) but I certainly have HD-DVD's that do NOT have LPCM audio on them I will double check when Im home which actual titles

Im sure its possible on HD-DVD, just not mandatory (I think its a pretty important distinction myself)

 

[james.miller]

i had to think twice about this lol. its the way your looking at it. the table doesnt show whats mandatory for the disks to support, its what the players have to support. so even though the players have to support LPCM, it doesnt mean the disks will carry the soundtracks. i dont know of many that do it doesnt matter too much when a lot of releases have a trueHD soundtrack though

 

[Mr Latte]

Still look forward to some comparisons or views between HD DVD Vs BD titles. Particulary with you big Onkyo owners.

In theory a BD movie with its extra BW has the potential to be quite a bit superior both in audio and video yet in some cases people seem to be hard pushed to tell the difference. Fair enough each movie and studio will produce similar results for each format but surely we can expect BD exclusives to really start increasing the used BW in stupendous transfers and super high audio bitrates.

Im still mythed why a Dolby True HD title with a lot less BW compared to the same movie on Blu Ray with much more BW included in its PCM audio soundtrack doesnt appear to be mentioned as a lot superior in audio terms in reviews and on forums.

Some comparisons cleary show that BD audio can be upto 8mbs while HD-DVD may only be approx 4mbs. Yet both are classed as lossless, help im certain thats double the audio bitrate but why not a major improvement in audio performance and dynamics and how are both lossless if ones double the other, sheeeks im lost mmm.

Any Answers?

 

[james.miller]

thats a can of worms lol. i personally cant make my mind up over this. being truly lossless, it *should* be the same as the equivalent LPMC soundtrack. it should, but there are differences although i dont know why. i do believe its something to do with Dialogue Normalization which is a part of the Dolby Digital spec. when you're listen to LPCM things can tend to sound more natural. it certainly isnt ideal because without any sort of normalisation (which obviously doesn't happen with LPCM) you really need to crank it for the softer sounds and dialogue to be an acceptable loudness. With LPCM and at a suitable listening level (reference level of course ) i really dont think LPCM can be beaten although there isnt a lot in it, and at quieter levels i do actually prefer the compressed formats and sticking 'night mode' on on the onkyo to bring the dynamic range down.


LPCM on bluray wont really come in to its own untill we start seeing higher bitrate soundtracks. at this point in time, virtually all (if not all) of the blurays with LPCM tracks are mastered at 48khz/16bit 5.1(6.2Mbps). once we start seeing 96khz/24bit differences should become more apparently. SACD's for example are output at 14.11Mbps (176.4khz/16bit 5.1).

edit: its actually 176.4khz/24 bit for sacd output - 21.1Mbps

 

[Mr Latte]

I may have been mistaken comparing DD Plus with its 3mbs audio. Im uncertain what the bit rate is for True HD on HD-DVDs however my understanding is the two are identical sounding just for some reason PCM is offered with higher bitrates, maybe its just because it require larger error correction, or the way PCM works heck who knows but research shows on several films they currently sound practically identical.

For Blu Rau I think the most reference quality material thus far is on titles like POTC which offers uncompressed PCM 5.1 surround track, encoded at 48kHz/24-bit/6.9mpbs.

Still compare that to HD-DVDs best and im unsure what the technical differences are.

Ref 300
Warner has supplied both the HD DVD and the Blu-ray with matching Dolby TrueHD 5.1 surround tracks (48kHz/16-bit), while the Blu-ray is also graced with an additional PCM 5.1 surround option (48kHz/16-bit/6.9mbps). Right upfront, the PCM sounded a bit louder, but after some level matching, a direct A/B comparison of several scenes revealed only slight differences. Although I'm sure this disc will stir up the whole TrueHD vs PCM debate, either way you slice it, the action scenes in '300' deliver the kind of demo-worthy audio that should be pure nirvana for any home theater enthusiast.

 

[james.miller]

yes. yes it does it's definitely worthy of the label 'reference material'

 

[FrankJH]

Thanks James - ok I see what the chart is saying (still think its too open to mis-interpretation even though there is no question you are right)

Actually I think there are a lot of hd-dvd discs out there that are only DD+ , which personally is a significant step down from TrueHd/DTS-HD. I accept ancient films like Blazing Saddles , and even much more recent hits like Leathal Weapon 2 and Daylight etc "only" having DD+ but when you pay £20-£25 per disc for a recent film like Swordfish, Seabiscuit, Serenity, Fast 2 Furious & MI triple pack (most of which arent that old at all) and when they visually look so incredible, I think its a major letdown that they dont have a really decent soundtrack. Even a brand new film like Miami Vice only has DD+ , admittedly its an awful film but the soundtrack would make a good demo if it had been mastered properly!!

I have to say there were a couple which I was disappointed the other way round, First Blood and Total recall sound pretty fantastic but to me the picture is ropey as anything (admittedly FB is a very old film, but Im sure they could have done better)

I agree the potential is there for both formats audio wise, but especially BR - its whether the production companies want to bother I guess , POTC twin packs are still amongst the best discs I have heard (they look fantastic too of course) and the BW is great, but few companies want to go to the effort it seems.

James was it you in another thread recommending Brothers in Arms and Dark Side of the Moon on SACD? I cant stand PF personally but really want to find a copy of Dire Straight's album (who ever it was funnily mentioned that the PF album is 35 years old - maybe splitting hairs but only the source is 35 years old, remixing that much to make it 5.1 or whatever from a stereo source really should count as a brand new album imo - not disputing the work done or the quality, just the comment itself )

Just to show Im not biased, the HD-DVD king for me so far is Batman Begins as an alround disc, with The Matrix triple disc pack 2nd (evne though I only like the original film). I dont think they could have improved BB very much, its a great demo and film.

Still havent found 300 - but going to try and locate it on BR at least.

 

[james.miller]

http://www.movietyme.com/catalog/ all your cheap HD-dvd and bluray needs! most of us got the 300 on bluray for ~£16 a few weeks before it was released over here

i found my sacd's in a rain forest, of all places. dont be affraid to go second hand. cheap as chips. it was me who recommended both of them. you dont like pink floyd ????? GET OUT lol. yeah ok, the source is 35 years old. its still a 35 year old album, much like some rather amazingly restored hd-dvd releases of late

 

[FrankJH]

Another brick in the wall is the only song/ track is the only thing of theirs I enjoy - everything else blahhhh (no accounting for taste hey )

I will head off there and try not to be tempted into too much, I tend to go to a website and instantly have £100 of discs in the basket hahaha

 

[YooEntSinMeROYT]

Do a quick Google Search for "Dark Side of the Moon Quadraphonic Mix"

As the Alan Parsons mix of the album found it's way onto the www a while back.

I've listened to it & I think in some ways prefer it to the SACD.
Plus you get various Pink Floyd artwork displaying on your screen while the music is playing with it being DVD-A.

 

[FrankJH]

For anyone interested try and look up a BR by the name of Windtalkers with Nic Cage in it.

quite an old release (BR wise I mean), and the DTS HD soundtrack is a piddly 786kb/s or something, but seriously ignore that and just listen - to my mind its hugely impressive soundtrack and certainly far better to my hearing than some TrueHD soundtracks with far higher bw.

It may not prove much, but I personally think that the original "design" of the soundtrack can leave much more lasting impressions than the actual bw imo

My onkyo is really starting to sing now (work got in the way of enjoying films for a few weeks so didnt get it broken in fully) but really need to upgrade my speakers, only on budget AE bookshelf models currently with REL Storm sub (which I need to tweak as its not being pushed by the auto calibration settings)

 

[james.miller]

your liking the onkyo then Frank?

 

[FrankJH]

your liking the onkyo then Frank?

You betcha - got an arduous job of watching all My BR's again just to see how they sound

 

[james.miller]

You betcha - got an arduous job of watching all My BR's again just to see how they sound

christ, what a bore

 

[FrankJH]

Well I figure by the time I have gone through my whole collection again I might just be able to afford some new ones lol