Need to improve my bulking diet

[marl]

Why so keen to bulk up? I always think a physique which is defined, looks much better than one which is huge and smooth.

In any case, my understanding is that muscle is extremely difficult to build naturally, so if you have gained a couple of kilo's of weight, if its quality weight, is that not a good thing?

 

[Morba]

Have i missed something? KK been naughty in another forum? seems ok here in SA

 

[Morba]

Why so keen to bulk up? I always think a physique which is defined, looks much better than one which is huge and smooth.

So, you see 2 6' blokes with tops off, which is more aesthetically pleasing?

bloke 1 - 15st, 12-15%bf, plenty of muscle (but not over the top), you can see some definition, but not a defined 6 pack
bloke 2 - 10st skinny as a rake, no additional muscle just the skeletal muscle he naturally has. Has a defined 6 pack and is very vascular.

 

[Zip]

So, you see 2 6' blokes with tops off, which is more aesthetically pleasing?

bloke 1 - 15st, 12-15%bf, plenty of muscle (but not over the top), you can see some definition, but not a defined 6 pack
bloke 2 - 10st skinny as a rake, no additional muscle just the skeletal muscle he naturally has. Has a defined 6 pack and is very vascular.

I would like to be inbetween

12%-15% body fat sounds like a lot, or is it really not that much once spread out over the entire body?

 

[Morba]

I would like to be inbetween

12%-15% body fat sounds like a lot, or is it really not that much once spread out over the entire body?

17% is considered healthy for a man.
I think 21-23+ is classed as obese

 

[rubberduck]

To the OP. You gave your diet and stated that it was for a trainning day, do you typically eat less on the days when you are not trainning as this could be a problem?

Cant really comment on your diet as you don't state the times you are eating as these will be important for someone who struggles to gain weight.... If you want to get extra carbs in to your diet then rice or even bread would be bettter than chocolate cake but I sure you know that

Obviously try to get as musch protein and cals from 'real' food rather than shakes etc. I found I got better results from supplimenting my diet using a 'slow release' protein blend of Whey and Casein.... Many would say pure whey is the better choice to take directly after a gym session but it is probably not hugely important.

 

[Freefaller]

I would like to be inbetween

12%-15% body fat sounds like a lot, or is it really not that much once spread out over the entire body?

Essential body fat is between 2-5%
Athletes are between 6-13%
Fitness 14-17%
Fat/acceptable 18-25%
Obese 26% +

 

[Freefaller]

Have i missed something? KK been naughty in another forum? seems ok here in SA

It's a joke ban I think.

 

[sniper007]

Well I am hardgainer, I find it incredibly difficult to put on size due to my high metabolism. However recently (past 4 months) I have been watching my diet very closely and trying to eat as much as I can. Needless to say it is paying off.

Here is what I eat on a typical day:

7am - Oats and milk
9am - Protein shake, 500 ml full fat milk (107g protein, 1400 cals)
10:30am - 3 scrambled eggs
12:00 am - Chicken and rice
2:00 pm - Cottage cheese and baked potato
4:00pm - Protein shake, 500 ml full fat milk (107g protein, 1400 cals)
6:30pm - Dinner, steak, potatoes and salad.
7:30pm - Gym
8:30pm - Protein shake, 500 ml full fat milk (107g protein, 1400 cals)
10:00pm - Chicken & Rice or Tuna & Pasta

Sometimes I will wake up in the middle of the night and go make something quick, like a microwave meal. I think I had cottage pie this morning. I've not sat down and worked out all of my calorie / protein / carb / fat intake but the protein shakes alone give me close to 4200 calories and 300g of protein. So I probably eat about 6000/6500 calories a day. Now when I first started eating like this I would get full very quickly, however my body has adapted to my eating pattern and now if I don't eat every 2 hours or so I get very hungry very quickly.

Erm...how do you get 1400 calories from one shake? Can you teach me? My Whey is from Holland and Barret...body fortress whey stuff. Been told its not that good. Mine says each portion has about 300 calories. DO you add Oats or peanut butter?

 

[Morba]

Its not just a protein shake, thats how, also its not 30g like you would put into a whey shake ;]

 

[rubberduck]

Erm...how do you get 1400 calories from one shake? Can you teach me? My Whey is from Holland and Barret...body fortress whey stuff. Been told its not that good. Mine says each portion has about 300 calories. DO you add Oats or peanut butter?

No way I can see... You can maybe get 800 kcals from the protein and milk but even that is pushing it a bit.... A shed load of oats and peanut butter might do it but it would be pretty hard to drink!

I really don't think such a large intake of whey in one 'meal' is particulary helpful to be honest and would argue if you will see any benefit from it over taking half the quantity. If you purely want the extra calories then I would look to a different source

I know shakes are convenient but they are also not particulalry cheap when you think about it.

 

[sniper007]

Its not just a protein shake, thats how, also its not 30g like you would put into a whey shake ;]

Can you give me some more info. I'm new to bulking. How do I get a shake withthat much calories in?

 

[Morba]

Can you give me some more info. I'm new to bulking. How do I get a shake withthat much calories in?

1140c come from the powder, I use Cytogainer Mint Choc. However I double-dose, use 300g of powder instead of 150g. It's the only thing I can really stomach and actually tastes nice. If I didn't have such an intolerance to nasty tasting carp I'd probably go for Serious Mass or something as it would be considerably cheaper.

Personally, I see no need to do what he is doing at all.
You are new to bulking - how heavy are you, whats your workout like? how many calories and what is the breakdown of it all?

 

[Morba]

No way I can see... You can maybe get 800 kcals from the protein and milk but even that is pushing it a bit.... A shed load of oats and peanut butter might do it but it would be pretty hard to drink!

I really don't think such a large intake of whey in one 'meal' is particulary helpful to be honest and would argue if you will see any benefit from it over taking half the quantity. If you purely want the extra calories then I would look to a different source

I know shakes are convenient but they are also not particulalry cheap when you think about it.

There is nothing convenient about 300g of powder in 500ml of full fat milk. Its not a '2 gulp, down in a couple of seconds' shake which is what they are meant to be!

 

[Deadly Ferret]

I'm sure your body can't process that much protein in one go anyway - you're probably not gaining much by doing that, and probably knackering your kidneys.

I don't know about the deleterious effects on the kidneys, but I do know that you're right about the body being unable to process that much protein. I remember reading it's pointless consuming more than 25g in one go. If having a shake with, for example, 50g of protein, then it's best to drink half in one hit then sip the rest over the course of at least thirty minutes.

To the OP..

might be better to post the times you eat what...doesnt look like that much food at all...

The time of day I do my training varies wildly unfortunately, and so my eating times do too.

Sorry DF totally ignored your initial post

If you're getting the right number of calories my only thought is that your veggie diet isn't supplying the right amount of aminos. Did you look at the ratios of essential aminos when you devised the diet? I know nothing of meat free diets so I could be way off

Thanks. I don't know anything about aminos so no, it wasn't taken into account. I take L-Glutamine post-workout, but as far as my diet goes I don't know what is provided.

What is needed, and how does one find out what certain foods provide?

Why so keen to bulk up? I always think a physique which is defined, looks much better than one which is huge and smooth.

Appearance doesn't come into it for me. I just want to significantly increase my strength. Besides, it's possible to be both big and defined; all defined means is low bodyfat.

 

[MTA99]

Thanks. I don't know anything about aminos so no, it wasn't taken into account. I take L-Glutamine post-workout, but as far as my diet goes I don't know what is provided.

What is needed, and how does one find out what certain foods provide?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_amino_acid

^^ Just skim read that and its a start. Might need to do some further research.

My thinking was (and its partially backed up by wiki) that your ability to maintain, repair and grow muscle is limited by the essential amino acids. I wasn't sure how many (and what quantities) of each amino were available to a vegetarian. The link suggests its possible to get the full compliment and that you're probably eating most of them anyway. What would need further investigation is the amounts needed to meet the classic 1g/lb protein ratio................which has lead me to think about what "profile" of aminos is protein in its generic sense

Looks like we've opened a can of worms!

 

[digisatman]

Whole milk x 1 gallon a day.
squat 1 x 20 3 times a week.

Comeback to me in a month and tell me you have not gained 20lbs

Take it from me, this works.

lol, squats n milk routine!

im sure it works, common sense tells you that it will do the job nicely! Tryed to do it myself, but a that much milk a day leaves you half-dead lol.