Question about wrongful driving disqualification
- Thread starter Nealio
- Start date
Soldato
I should imagine you're entitled to be put in the position you were before you were "wrongfully" banned. So anything you have lost as a result and most costs you have incurred as a result as well.
Soldato
You are very special then. I would think the vast majority of people would never be able to judge speed to that accuracy under all road conditions.
To the OP, have you tried asking on Pepipoo? Lots of very knowledgeable people on there.
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Soldato
I suspect he wasn't aware of his speed because otherwise he wouldn't have got caught speeding? Surely that is the case in 90% of speeding convictions?
Although maybe he is aware of it... because the camera was uncalibrated in this case!Perhaps he was caught by a mobile camera or was not paying attention... anyway, im just curious
People dont always post the full story, to bolster their arguement or hide shame?
I didn't think what I can do is special.
I've just been a driver for 15 years and my experience behind a wheel just means I can accurately judge speeds.
I honestly thought any half-good driver could judge the speed they are travelling at quite accurately - one of the reasons why I've always hated the "You have to look at the speedo all the time" arguments.
Oh well - obviously a skill my dad had, passed on to me and not as widespread as I thought.
Soldato
So when you pass a speed camera you dont even look down at your speedo to check? I very much doubt that my friend
Man of Honour
If I were in your position I'd be seeking advice from my solicitor rather than a bunch of teenagers on an internet computing forum.
OK, I'll go to a solicitor, just thought I'd check on here and see if anyone has been in/knows of similar cases.
Please note the point of this thread was never 'was I going faster than the limit when I passed the camera?'
Maybe I was, maybe I wasn't. Who knows/can prove it? Fact is it's innocent until proven guilty in this country and if you've got no admissible evidence then from a legal standpoint, I wasn't speeding.
For the record, iirc it was 34 in a 30 by a gatso, not exactly beyond the realms of possibility for me to be completely innocent is it?
The question was, 'given that the speed camera partnership have decided for themselves that legally I wasn't speeding and therefore to remove the 3 points, where do I stand with regard to a ban that arose partially because of those points?'
Please note the point of this thread was never 'was I going faster than the limit when I passed the camera?'
Maybe I was, maybe I wasn't. Who knows/can prove it? Fact is it's innocent until proven guilty in this country and if you've got no admissible evidence then from a legal standpoint, I wasn't speeding.
For the record, iirc it was 34 in a 30 by a gatso, not exactly beyond the realms of possibility for me to be completely innocent is it?
The question was, 'given that the speed camera partnership have decided for themselves that legally I wasn't speeding and therefore to remove the 3 points, where do I stand with regard to a ban that arose partially because of those points?'
Soldato
Rubbish. Anybody who cannot control thier speed shouldnt be allowed to drive. It takes the same split second to check a speedo as it does to check a mirror and is therefore no excuse.
- Pea0n
edit: It is also irrelevant of wether it is "safe to drive at thsoe speeds or not". If the powers thats be say you shouldnt do it then dont do it, its not hard to understand. Dont get me wrong, I think the speed limits need adjusting, but its nobody elses problem if you disobey the law.
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Is road safety controlled by a number?
Soldato
Doesnt matter. people "think" they are able to drive at a speed becasue they are special. Wether they can or not is beside the point. There has to be one rule for all, not rules for individual people. The amount of people I know of who thought along these lines and now are injured or worse is very high.
If you choose to break the law then you should be willing to accept the consequence.
- Pea0n
That wasn't what I asked. Are you concerned about road safety or compliance with poorly considered laws?
I care about road safety, hence why I don't approve of the current speed kills idea, given that the government's own stats clearly show that speed is irrelevant to road safety in approx 95% of accidents.
So if the law doesn't make the roads safer, what is the point of it, and is worrying about adherance to the law beneficial to road safety?
Soldato
Of course I am concerned about road safety and I dont like the way you posted that as to try and goad me into a stupid answer, but seeing as you take the idea of making the limits higher (I fail to see how you would be advocating making them lower) then I fail to see how that in anyway makes them safer? And that was not my point either. I am simply stating that the law is there. If you choose to break it is your own responsibility.
Poorly constructed laws they may be, but just because you think they are stupid does that give you the right to break them? No. I assure you I would like nothing mroe than to see a revamp. But I also beleive the idea isnt totally that speed kills, it is that driving at higher speeds, regardless of your "skill" it is a fact it takes longer to break and makes the car harder to control in un-expected circumstance.
- Pea0n
Poorly constructed laws they may be, but just because you think they are stupid does that give you the right to break them? No. I assure you I would like nothing mroe than to see a revamp. But I also beleive the idea isnt totally that speed kills, it is that driving at higher speeds, regardless of your "skill" it is a fact it takes longer to break and makes the car harder to control in un-expected circumstance.
- Pea0n
Permabanned
Depends if it was 'uncalibrated' or just didn't have a current calibration certificate though really, the two are very different situations.
Without the certificate none of its 'convictions' would be valid but chances are, as with a lot of things like those cameras, they rarely need recalibrating, just checking and new certificates issuing. The camera was properly operating perfectly fine, it just didn't have the required documentation to enable its results to be legally binding.
I wouldn't simply advocate raising limits, only more intelligent enforcement (like was used before cameras became a replacement for discretionary enforcement), meaning that points for speeding become relevant again as a means of assessing a driver's understanding... The number on the side of the road has no bearing on what the safe speed on a given stretch of road at a given time, and a camera is incapable of determining what is a safe speed at the time, or whether the driver's actions are safe with regard to the speed they are doing.
Stopping distances also vary hugely between cars at the same speed, ditto handling and unpredictability at speed.
Soldato
I know what your saying and I do not disagree with most of it. I completley agree that certain cars are able to handle differently but a lot of it is also down to the driver.
My point is simply that the law is there no matter how stupid it is or even if not stupid, how out of date and you have no right to violate it.
Speed limits are one of the current ways the law for driving is upheld, but to not only calibrate it for each individual car, in each individual condition, in certain driving conditions on certain types of road is nigh on impossible, but then factoring in the drivers own ability into this equation leaves very little scope for altering road laws. it is hard to accept but thats all there is too it at the moment
- Pea0n
My point is simply that the law is there no matter how stupid it is or even if not stupid, how out of date and you have no right to violate it.
Speed limits are one of the current ways the law for driving is upheld, but to not only calibrate it for each individual car, in each individual condition, in certain driving conditions on certain types of road is nigh on impossible, but then factoring in the drivers own ability into this equation leaves very little scope for altering road laws. it is hard to accept but thats all there is too it at the moment
- Pea0n
It's not hard to do, it's exactly how they used to be enforced before cameras. It's only hard to do if you insist on using automated methods which focus on the wrong danger factor.