Tribes uncontacted by man - facinating

Sinque · 30 May 2008 at 14:54

Anyone found them on google maps yet?

Glaucus · 30 May 2008 at 14:56

Surfer said:
A ridiculous statement Acidhell....so now i think you're trolling *sigh*

Im certainly not trolling. That is how I feel. I don't see why we need to wrap them in cotton wool for there own safety. Use things need to be done carefully and with boundaries. But that doesn't mean we should not contact them.

CliffyBiro · 30 May 2008 at 14:57

So technically, as they have no knowledge of their country's law, they could possibly be breaking it without knowing?

Mechanical Arts · 30 May 2008 at 14:58

CliffyBiro · 30 May 2008 at 14:58

HEADRAT · 30 May 2008 at 14:59

Sod'em, roll in the trucks and burn down their forest so we can use the wood, plant maize and feed cattle on it, that's the "real world" after all.

Let's not isolate them from that, every other indigenous people have had to go through it so why not these poor suckers, there'll be swigging Bud and eating burgers in no time.

Well the few that are left after the disease has finished with 'em

Glaucus · 30 May 2008 at 15:00

If that was direct at me, at no point have I said that. in most of my posts I said they should be protected if they so desire.

Skidder · 30 May 2008 at 15:00

Mechanical Arts said:

brilliant

Surfer · 30 May 2008 at 15:02

AcidHell2 said:
Im certainly not trolling. That is how I feel. I don't see why we need to wrap them in cotton wool for there own safety. Use things need to be done carefully and with boundaries. But that doesn't mean we should not contact them.

What do you think would happen? Lets hear what you think the benefits to them would be. You are aware of the stats of cases like this yeah?

Disease and death have plagued indigenous communities in South America since they first came into contact with outsiders from Europe in the 1500s. The indigenous populations had no immune protection against smallpox, measles, and flu, which wiped out thousands of communities

Skidder · 30 May 2008 at 15:03

AcidHell2 said:
If that was direct at me, at no point have I said that. in most of my posts I said they should be protected if they so desire.

How would they make a reasoned decision about whether they "desire" to be exposed to a global civilisation they no nothing about? Perhaps we show them the jeans and digital watches, play a few back episodes of eastenders to them and then say so guys, are you sticking with the mud huts or joining us in the rat race?

Glaucus · 30 May 2008 at 15:04

Surfer said:
What do you think would happen? Lets hear what you think the benefits to them would be. You are aware of the stats of cases like this yeah?

I am know yes. A small contact party can be screened. They're might not be any benefits. Should we only do things if there's a benefit? of course not.

Skidder said:
How would they make a reasoned decision about whether they "desire" to be exposed to a global civilisation they no nothing about? Perhaps we show them the jeans and digital watches, play a few back episodes of eastenders to them and then say so guys, are you sticking with the mud huts or joining us in the rat race?

You can make contact and talk to them. there still thousands of miles from civiliastation. They won't be transformed overnight.

HEADRAT · 30 May 2008 at 15:06

AcidHell2 said:
If that was direct at me, at no point have I said that. in most of my posts I said they should be protected if they so desire.

How can they make a decision, they would just have no concept of what they are choosing, OK the modern world is full of wonders but it's also full of terrible evils. They would have no knowledge of the tribes that have been and gone in the face of "progress"

This will only end one for them if they are introduced to the outside world, badly!

HEADRAT

Glaucus · 30 May 2008 at 15:07

HEADRAT said:
How can they make a decision, they would just have no concept of what they are choosing, OK the modern world is full of wonders but it's also full of terrible evils. They would have no knowledge of the tribes that have been on gone in the face of "progress"

This will only end one for them if they are introduced to the outside world, badly!

HEADRAT

Choosing what?
a contact team would go in and go you have this choice or that choice. It simply a contact team and that's it. How do you know it will end badly? Some tribes have carried on with traditional ways. whilst using some modern technology and seem perfectly happy with what they have chosen.

HEADRAT · 30 May 2008 at 15:12

AcidHell2 said:
Choosing what?

AcidHell2 said:
they should be protected if they so desire.

Choose to be protected.

How are they going to make an informed decision when they have absolutely no concept of what's out there, how are the contact team going to be able to explain!

Skidder · 30 May 2008 at 15:12

AcidHell2 said:
I am know yes. A small contact party can be screened. They're might not be any benefits. Should we only do things if there's a benefit? of course not.

You can make contact and talk to them. there still thousands of miles from civiliastation. They won't be transformed overnight.

My point was that with no frame of reference beyond their insular reality how on earth would they make such a decision. Perhaps i was a bit flipant and you didn't get it but how is "talking to them" going to provide them with the tools to make a decision. Let's see .........we make contact, learn their language from scratch, provide them with a taste of our reality, a slurp of philosophy, a smidgen of geography, a crash course in market economics and then without inevitably having influenced and changed their world view forever, we offer to them the choice of a bus to Sao Paulo or us walking away into the forest and leaving them to it. Bewildered and presumably with their whole world view knocked sideways. Hmm, can't see that working.

Glaucus · 30 May 2008 at 15:15

Skidder said:
My point was that with no frame of reference beyond their insular reality how on earth would they make such a decision. Perhaps i was a bit flipant and you didn't get it but how is "talking to them" going to provide them with the tools to make a decision. Let's see .........we make contact, learn their language from scratch, provide them with a taste of our reality, a slurp of philosophy, a smidgen of geography, a crash course in market economics and then without inevitably having influenced and changed their world view forever, we offer to put them the choice of a bus to Sao Paulo us walking away into the forest and leaving them to it. Bewildered and presumably with their whole world view knocked sideways. Hmm, can't see that working.

And as I said why do they need to make a decision. for the moment the goverment sets up legislation to protect them. Then you send a meet and great team and see what happens. No need to force anything on them or to make them choose anything. I really don't see the problems if done correctly as I keep saying it's not like the old days. People are much more aware.

HEADRAT · 30 May 2008 at 15:15

Don't forget that if they do want access to the outside world that many of them will just die from disease

AcidHell2 said:
People are much more aware.

We not talking about history here, in the 1980/90's tribes have been decimated by oil exploration and loggers.

Glaucus · 30 May 2008 at 15:16

HEADRAT said:
Don't forget that if they do want access to the outside world that many of them will just die from disease

Only if they catch it in there villages, if they moved to the city's they would quickly build up immunity and as long as they have ace's to medical treatment many things can be treated even with a lack of immunity. That's a decision for them, not us.

Skidder · 30 May 2008 at 15:17

AcidHell2 said:
And as I said why do they need to make a decision. for the moment the goverment sets up legislation to protect them. Then you send a meet and great team and see what happens. No need to force anything on them or to make them choose anything. I really don't see the problems if done correctly as I keep saying it's not like the old days. People are much more aware.

The choice is either make contact or don't. With contact (which has kinda been done now) the end result is inevitable, without, the end result is delayed.

Surfer · 30 May 2008 at 15:18

you know we may initially contact them with the open hand of friendship and a big cheesy grin but i betcha in the back of somebodys mind is just thinking how to exploit these people. Sad but people are like that.

Davi Kopenawa, a shaman of the Yanomami tribe, will help launch a report that, says Survival International, the charity behind it, claims separation from the land is directly linked to the 'physical and mental breakdown' of indigenous communities, whose lifestyle and culture is already under threat from mining, logging and resettlement away from traditional lands.
In a statement issued through the group, Kopenawa said: 'You napepe (whites) talk about what you call development and tell us to become the same as you. But we know that this brings only disease and death. Now you want to buy pieces of rainforest, or to plant biofuels. These are useless. The forest cannot be bought; it is our life and we have always protected it. Without the forest, there is only sickness.'

taken from
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/oct/14/climatechange.brazil

A small contact party can be screened

For physical diseases you mean? You think that its only physical contamination that should be a concern?