England v South Africa 2009 Test Series - 1st Test Lords

Fothsn · 11 Jul 2008 at 22:23

gam3r said:
Poor Bell.......unlucky i guess. If anyone should go, i think it should be Vaughan...don't rate him at all! Oh, and good old knock from Broad too .

Don’t rate Vaughan please explain? Do you know his test averages? Plus he is a very very good captain.

MarcLister · 11 Jul 2008 at 23:12

Fothsn said:
Yea can’t see anybody else apart from colly to go, wouldn’t want to loose a bowler and his batting form hasn’t being good of late, I’m really looking forward to seeing Flintoff back he looks in great touch with both bat and ball

An excellent 2 days for England couldnt of being any better, Broad is looking to be a cracking all rounder, not many (I suppose you can call him a tale ender atm) gets 70+ against SA, heard something like he has scored more than 25runs per game for the last 6 matches, pietersen and Bell well there in a class of their own.

Yeah. Don't get me wrong I like Collingwood. He just isn't scoring and needs some time with Durham I think. Plus Flintoff could come back and do crap or get injured so Colly may not be out for ages. With 593-7 England can carry Collingwood but there could be a time when we'd need him to score big and going for 7, even if the call was wrong, and we'd be in trouble.

Broad averaging over 40 in Test cricket when he bats apparently! :eek:

gam3r said:
Poor Bell.......unlucky i guess. If anyone should go, i think it should be Vaughan...don't rate him at all! Oh, and good old knock from Broad too .

Vaughan stays as he is a brilliant captain. And he's scored centuries recently so not out of form as Collingwood is.

oli collett · 11 Jul 2008 at 23:38

If Flintoff does come back in the next test I don't think he should be batting ahead of Broad!

MarcLister · 12 Jul 2008 at 01:58

Definitely not.

Broad is doing very well. I'd be surprised if Flintoff came back in and scored runs with the ease Broad seems to be scoring his runs atm. :cool:

MoratJG · 12 Jul 2008 at 13:54

I think it will be Anderson to go. True, Colly is out of form but he is a good batsman, a half decent back-up bowler and one of the best fielders in the modern game. As good a bowler as Anderson can be, that's all he is, and we all know how patchy his form can be. I think the England camp have stated that when Fred comes back it will be as a bowler first. I expect to see him batting further down the order and Colly keeping his place (for now).

rotters · 12 Jul 2008 at 15:17

its quite funny how rude bumble has been about kallis being a bit beefy atm, lol "i dont want to be rude but i think he's a bit fat" lollage at the honesty.

SA seem to have stuttered this morning not really firing at all, currently 144/4

oli collett · 13 Jul 2008 at 02:20

MoratJG said:
I think it will be Anderson to go. True, Colly is out of form but he is a good batsman, a half decent back-up bowler and one of the best fielders in the modern game. As good a bowler as Anderson can be, that's all he is, and we all know how patchy his form can be. I think the England camp have stated that when Fred comes back it will be as a bowler first. I expect to see him batting further down the order and Colly keeping his place (for now).

I've always doubted Anderson but i really think he's come a long way this summer. He's been a lot more consistent and although i don't think he'll ever be as consistent as sidebottom he also posesses pace as a good backup plan on a flat wicket. He also still has youth on his side.

If Flintoff did replace Collingwood a bowling attack of Broad, Anderson, Flintoff, Sidebottom and Panesar would surely be as potent as any other attack in international cricket. Add Simon Jones into the mix later into the year and then that really is something special. The only question then is whether our batsman can keep batting like they did in the first innings and whether Tim Ambrose can consistently score enough runs.

rotters · 13 Jul 2008 at 02:23

completely agree with above post, my guts arent feeling good re ambrose, he just seems to bottle it too often. otherwise if we carry on like this........the rest of this year could be very exciting.

gillywibble · 13 Jul 2008 at 10:25

Can't wait to see Simon Jones back at international level.

MarcLister · 13 Jul 2008 at 12:58

oli collett said:
I've always doubted Anderson but i really think he's come a long way this summer. He's been a lot more consistent and although i don't think he'll ever be as consistent as sidebottom he also posesses pace as a good backup plan on a flat wicket. He also still has youth on his side.

If Flintoff did replace Collingwood a bowling attack of Broad, Anderson, Flintoff, Sidebottom and Panesar would surely be as potent as any other attack in international cricket. Add Simon Jones into the mix later into the year and then that really is something special. The only question then is whether our batsman can keep batting like they did in the first innings and whether Tim Ambrose can consistently score enough runs.

I quite agree with you tbh. Anderson/Broad/Sidebottom/Panesar/Flintoff is over doing it in terms of bowlers. Sidey stays in for obvious reasons. Broady and Monty too.

rotters said:
completely agree with above post, my guts arent feeling good re ambrose, he just seems to bottle it too often. otherwise if we carry on like this........the rest of this year could be very exciting.

Well there is one obvious solution to the wicket keeper problem the ECB haven't thought of. Bring back Alec Stewart.

Everyone is saying since he went we've had problems. So bring 'im back.

gillywibble said:
Can't wait to see Simon Jones back at international level.

Yep. But then we'd have the same problem now. Flintoff in, who out? Jones in, who out? Monty no. Broad no as he can bat and bowl. Sidey no. So a batsman then? Have Jones/Sidey/Broad as the main strike bowlers with Monty offering spin and Flintoff bowling as a shock bowler so as not to knacker him and risk more injury?

oli collett · 13 Jul 2008 at 16:12

MarcLister said:
I quite agree with you tbh. Anderson/Broad/Sidebottom/Panesar/Flintoff is over doing it in terms of bowlers. Sidey stays in for obvious reasons. Broady and Monty too.

Well there is one obvious solution to the wicket keeper problem the ECB haven't thought of. Bring back Alec Stewart. Everyone is saying since he went we've had problems. So bring 'im back.

Yep. But then we'd have the same problem now. Flintoff in, who out? Jones in, who out? Monty no. Broad no as he can bat and bowl. Sidey no. So a batsman then? Have Jones/Sidey/Broad as the main strike bowlers with Monty offering spin and Flintoff bowling as a shock bowler so as not to knacker him and risk more injury?

Bring back Stewart - if only!! If only he was 10 years younger...

You're quite right with regards to Jones - it's going to be very difficult to drop any of the bowlers right now. It is, however, a very good position to be in, certainly better than the situation we were in 1-2 years ago having to rely on the likes of Plunkett & Mahmood! I wouldn't be surprised if the problem fixes itself and one of the bowlers gets injured... well lets hope it doesn't anyway!

MarcLister · 13 Jul 2008 at 16:25

True. Weren't Plunkett and Mahmood touted as the next best England bowlers? :rolleyes:

rotters · 14 Jul 2008 at 03:51

very boring day of play today. unfortunately SA are playing for a draw, no excitement, monty not doing much. then we got the newball and still not much happening.

rotters

Big Kev · 14 Jul 2008 at 18:22

Not the result we hoped for, but hats off to SA, they fought hard and got the draw, better luck in the next test, with Flintoff back as well.

Mad old tory · 14 Jul 2008 at 18:29

Sounds like the pitch was an appalling excuse for a test wicket by all accounts. Fair play to the Saffas to hold out but the slow runrate shows we were bowling pretty well and would have got more wickets on a proper test pitch.

MarcLister · 14 Jul 2008 at 19:27

Did anyone who has Sky Sports hear what Botham was saying this afternoon? Since 2005 10 or 11 Test matches that England have played in London (so Lords and the Oval). Out of those 10/11 Test matches England have drawn 8 of them. Probably 12/9 now after this match.

However since 2005 England have played 14 Test matches OUTSIDE London and won 11 of them, lost 2 and drawn 1. Beefy seemed to be hinting at something, all I got was he doesn't much like London.

nav007 · 14 Jul 2008 at 20:28

MarcLister said:
Did anyone who has Sky Sports hear what Botham was saying this afternoon? Since 2005 10 or 11 Test matches that England have played in London (so Lords and the Oval). Out of those 10/11 Test matches England have drawn 8 of them. Probably 12/9 now after this match.

However since 2005 England have played 14 Test matches OUTSIDE London and won 11 of them, lost 2 and drawn 1. Beefy seemed to be hinting at something, all I got was he doesn't much like London.

I saw that bit and its quite an interesting stat. Its a shame SA played for the draw cos England's bowling wasn't too bad

MarcLister · 14 Jul 2008 at 22:34

nav007 said:
I saw that bit and its quite an interesting stat. Its a shame SA played for the draw cos England's bowling wasn't too bad

Yeah. I can't think of what it is about Test grounds in London that is the problem. Botham didn't really get around to. All that happened was Athers mentioned that Beefy didn't like London.

All I can suppose is that Lords is part of the problem. All visiting teams want to play there because of the history so whilst England might be the better team the visiting team are encouraged to dig deep to earn a draw because of their surroundings?

Mad old tory · 15 Jul 2008 at 20:42

I think it's just a case of the pitches being too flat really. Oval especially is renouned for being an absolute belter of a batting wicket.

rotters · 15 Jul 2008 at 21:01

well will they rest sidebottom and put flintoff on?