Chinese set to run train service that will top 236 mph

Fusion · 1 Sep 2008 at 14:05

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7591608.stm

China are going to construct a new rail link between Beijing and Shanghai that will reach a maximum speed 236mph, running a 1300km distance in about 5 hours. The service will be operation in 2012.

Makes a mockery of our current mainline network, with the exception of High Speed 1 the best we can manage is 125mph on the East Coast Mainline, it could handle 140mph but not until the signalling is upgraded.

I realise that labour costs are much lower in China and so their line will cost a fraction of what it would over here but still, France, Germany and Japan are industrialised nations with high wage costs who all have a much faster, more efficient mainline rail system than us, even more astonishing considering we invented railways in the first place.

With rail use here being the highest since WWII, we desperately need new high speed lines, particularly on north-south routes.

So what's the problem? Bad policymaking, car-centric culture, too many NIMBYS leading to overly long planning applications bogging us down?

Morba · 1 Sep 2008 at 14:08

How about it being that we are a very small country and with so many stops to make it wouldnt be financially worthwhile making a separate line that will house very fast trains from one end of the country to the other.

Simon · 1 Sep 2008 at 14:14

Fusion said:
So what's the problem? Bad policymaking, car-centric culture, too many NIMBYS leading to overly long planning applications bogging us down?

No - purely it is unneccessary. Trains cost enough as it is, let alone one like this!

Dracata · 1 Sep 2008 at 14:16

The UK is a fraction of the size of China, and many other countries that have higher speed rail-links, we have no need of something like this (compared to the cost/labour needed to impliment it).

Not to mention in China, the greater use of the railways, more people etc.

Fusion · 1 Sep 2008 at 14:17

We're the worlds fifth biggest economy, and not substantially smaller geographically than France, Germany and Japan, not by orders of magnitude anyway. There wouldn't need to be lots of stops on a high speed route, just population centres of 50,000+ say, that happened to lie on or near to, the route.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article3724037.ece

I'd say upgrades are definitely necessary, with 1.2 billion journeys made per year and passenger numbers rising at nearly 8% annually!

Acid_death69 · 1 Sep 2008 at 14:17

tis madness, these countries getting amazingly fast trains and we are stuck with the ones that bearly go past 60Mph:s

Morba · 1 Sep 2008 at 14:20

Fusion said:
We're the worlds fifth biggest economy, and not substantially smaller geographically than France, Germany and Japan, not by orders of magnitude anyway. There wouldn't need to be lots of stops on a high speed route, just population centres of 50,000+ say, that happened to lie on or near to, the route.

Think of the cost to implement it, then the cost of the tickets to get on said train. Won't happen.

Fusion · 1 Sep 2008 at 14:24

Morba said:
Think of the cost to implement it, then the cost of the tickets to get on said train. Won't happen.

The article I posted reckons the lines would cost £31 billion, but deliver £63 billion in economic benefits. Other governments seem to think it's more than worthwhile (Japan are upgrading the speeds on their lines).

Strife212 · 1 Sep 2008 at 14:24

Lets get some MagLev trains tbh

The Japanese trains go at over 350mph!

Morba · 1 Sep 2008 at 14:25

that is for them. I cannot see it being that well used due to the shocking costs of tickets already.
If anything, it might push longer journeys prices cheaper, but then people would still go for the significantly cheaper tickets.

yak.h'cir · 1 Sep 2008 at 14:27

We don't have one because hardly anyone would use it. Think about it, most people will rarely take any single train journey over 4 hours long as it is (i.e. between two major stations on a commute that could feasible be replaced by high speed), how many of these people would be willing to pay 2 or 3 times the standard ticked cost in order to get there in 2 hours, I don't think there would be many. With shorter journeys the time saving would be even less noticeable + if trains are only stopping at major stations in order to keep the time saving up a lot of people will still have to take a journey via standard train in order to get there. I think what the people in this country want most is for the current network to run on time and to not cost so much. Travelling by train costs way too much as it is, it just isn't cost effective if you have a car, especially if you're not travelling alone.

I think a sensible upgrade that might be popular would be to adapt the current network to allow for cars to be driven onto certain trains.

KNiVES · 1 Sep 2008 at 14:27

We don't need trains that go faster than 125mph. A century ago, steam trains didn't even go that fast and nobody complained. The bigger issue is us being ripped off left right and center by ticket prices.

Just because we're the UK doesnt mean we should have the best of everything. It's down to convenience and suitability of cost versus end result. China -needs- these fast trains, it's huge.

Greenlizard0 · 1 Sep 2008 at 14:27

The Japanese trains are insane. I remember seeing that GoogleVid one from a year or two back where the train's speed peaked at around 530km/hr.

Other European countries intercity trains rocket through it's kind of sad to think it's only now that the Liverpool/London takes 2hrs 24mins.

I reckon that people will use it if a much faster network between cities existed.

retribution · 1 Sep 2008 at 14:28

Might be something to do with the fact we have the only privatised rail network in Europe (there are moves in Geramy to privatise aspects of it though iirc). The number of different train companies/providers/maintenance etc can't promote an efficient, easy to use rail network.

Sinny · 1 Sep 2008 at 14:29

Acid_death69 said:
tis madness, these countries getting amazingly fast trains and we are stuck with the ones that bearly go past 60Mph:s

Why would we want trains to go that fast, maybe as a subway type railway link, but i like to watch out the window while im going on a train rather than see everything bullet past.

-Ad- · 1 Sep 2008 at 14:32

How about banning motorway speedlimits then we can all get everywhere much faster........

For 1% of the year when they are not gridlocked

Glaucus · 1 Sep 2008 at 14:32

We don't really need faster trains. what we need is a better infrastructure, re-open all the closed stations and lines. Then run more trains, more coaches and cheaper tickets.

Skull · 1 Sep 2008 at 14:34

Sinny said:
Why would we want trains to go that fast, maybe as a subway type railway link, but i like to watch out the window while im going on a train rather than see everything bullet past.

That's pretty much the best argument I've heard against high-speed rail.

Energize · 1 Sep 2008 at 14:34

It's because china has a nazi style government which means it can get stuff done quickly and efficiently, ie olympic games which destroyed loads of peoples houses to make room for it, whereas the uk government is so full of bureaucracy it can't get anything done for any amount of money.

Sinny said:
Why would we want trains to go that fast, maybe as a subway type railway link, but i like to watch out the window while im going on a train rather than see everything bullet past.

Because then you can get out of bed later and waste so much less time commuting. In this country your hourly rate is effectivley reduced because you spend so much time commuting.

Jonnycoupe · 1 Sep 2008 at 14:35

Sinny said:
Why would we want trains to go that fast, maybe as a subway type railway link, but i like to watch out the window while im going on a train rather than see everything bullet past.

You can go to the steam train museam and ride on those, the rest of us will be going to work and on holiday faster.