Betting

CaseyChaos · 4 Mar 2009 at 14:02

This is only a general wondering,

I know that winnings on bets and the lottery are not subject to any tax being taken off them but there must be professional gamblers out there who don't need to work and can happily make £400 and over a week on football or horse racing etc. Since this is now their 'job' and is their only form of income do they have to notify HMRC and become self employed etc and pay income tax based on last year's 'earnings' ??

stinamoo · 4 Mar 2009 at 14:07

*deleted*

CaseyChaos · 4 Mar 2009 at 14:15

matched betting? you mean like betfair rather than an actual bookies?

Maccy · 4 Mar 2009 at 14:19

There was a massive thread about matched betting a while ago.

EDIT - here we go - http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17753529

stinamoo · 4 Mar 2009 at 14:23

*deleted*

CaseyChaos · 4 Mar 2009 at 14:29

Cheers I'll have a read

dowie · 4 Mar 2009 at 18:55

"Matched betting" as you're referring to it (technically) isn't completely risk free it has in effect counterparty risk in the same way that arbitrage has.

as for professional gamblers for the moment at least the inland revenue don't seem to be interested:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/bim22017.htm

Not sure whether this will change in the future (especially given the nature of betting on the exchanges) for example from the case in point: "I do not think he could be said to organise his effort in the same way as a bookmaker organises his." - it is perfectly possible to be far more sophisticated in betting these days than most bookies (who are in effect just market makers) so I'm not sure that this case will always apply (though if the inland revenue are still happy tis prob best not to rock the boat too much).

Sinque · 4 Mar 2009 at 19:12

Does it still actually work?

eXor · 4 Mar 2009 at 19:19

dowie said:
though if the inland revenue are still happy tis prob best not to rock the boat too much

If they did introduce a tax, I wonder if losses could be offset against winnings.

Sinque said:
Does it still actually work?

Yes. A few more hoops to jump through, in some cases.

dowie · 4 Mar 2009 at 19:23

Yes - though you won't get rich from it.

If you're really interested in gambling then there are plenty of books and papers out there you can read on the subject, there is a lot more to be exploited than simply taking advantage of the free bet offers.

Jeff Lynne · 4 Mar 2009 at 19:24

A chap that I work with regularly bets several hundred notes on Man Utd to win at home against teams that should beat (and they usually do)

dowie · 4 Mar 2009 at 19:26

eXor said:
If they did introduce a tax, I wonder if losses could be offset against winnings.

I'm not a tax expert but they'd probably tax it as income and it would probably only be for certain individuals who make their entire living from gambling.

Jeff Lynne · 4 Mar 2009 at 19:28

It used to be taked anyhow, 10% I think. You either paid tax on your stake or tax on your winnings.

Sinque · 4 Mar 2009 at 19:36

dowie said:
Yes - though you won't get rich from it.

If you're really interested in gambling then there are plenty of books and papers out there you can read on the subject, there is a lot more to be exploited than simply taking advantage of the free bet offers.

I was only thinking of £100 or something, at my age (17), it's quite a lot of money to me. But I don't think I could risk depositing such amounts of money into those websites.

Ben · 4 Mar 2009 at 19:51

Sinque said:
I was only thinking of £100 or something, at my age (17), it's quite a lot of money to me. But I don't think I could risk depositing such amounts of money into those websites.

Oh £100 is a piece of cake when starting out....
Jaxx: £25 cashback ... also Bet £25 get £25 free
Betfair: £10 cashback and using a referral code ... risk (i.e use it for matched betting) £50 (this week only), plus then some referrals will give you a cut (£20 - £30).

If you find a matched bet of odds of evens on jaxx to match off at betfair, by the time you have done your own £25 wager, and the £25 free bet you should have risked £50 at betfair on those two.

So
Cashback total: £35
Freebet earnings: ~£70 (varies depending on how close the match you've found is).
Referral share earnings: £20-30

So a minimum there of £125. (if the cashback tracks).

As for me I started in early July last year, and have earnt over £3000 from doing it. (I have taken a couple of months off though, and have missed out on about £300 worth of repeat offers).

Obviously make sure you fully understand the concept and do a couple of dry runs to see whether you have grasped it or not. Definitely not something to go jumping in head first with without understanding it all.

Sinque · 4 Mar 2009 at 20:01

Ben said:
snip*

Where did you learn to do it? Would you be able to mentor me if I have any problems?

Ben · 4 Mar 2009 at 20:25

Sinque said:
Where did you learn to do it? Would you be able to mentor me if I have any problems?

Over at MSE as linked above. But one thing I overlooked... you're 17, you need to be 18 to do it. A lot of bookies ask for ID too, so not something to lie about.

Sinque · 4 Mar 2009 at 20:28

Ben said:
Over at MSE as linked above. But one thing I overlooked... you're 17, you need to be 18 to do it. A lot of bookies ask for ID too, so not something to lie about.

Yeah, i've just been reading that. Looks like you need to register a credit card before you can withdraw - something I can't get until i'm 18. Bad times

jaybee · 4 Mar 2009 at 20:36

For me I was always interested in starting up matched betting, but when I weighed up how much time I would have to spend doing it to make money, I would have been better off just working extra time at work. More money, less hassle and more enjoyable than the tedious and mind numbing nature of matched betting. If you find you have a life with plenty of time to spare and actually enjoy matched betting and are willing to jump through the hoops then go for it.

mattyj1085 · 4 Mar 2009 at 21:04

I thought some people make a living playing poker. Online and in casinos. In fact im positive of this because one of my friends friends does, earns quite a bit too playing online poker