Why is VAT accepted?

Man of Honour
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Dunno, mate... maybe it's just because of economies of scale, or the fact we're a small island in Europe with no manufacturing industry left to speak of.

Well, if you count the 7th biggest manufacturing economy in the world not worth speaking of that is...

As to why we put up with taxes, we don't have a lot of choice, the state monopoly of force allows them to punish those who are unwilling to pay taxes, hence opposition is effectively squashed. This is especially in the case of taxes that make 'other people' pay for the services of the majority...
 
Associate
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Just to go back to this point... sales taxes, such as those they use in the US, are no more effective than VAT because they are open to "tax cascading".

VAT doesn't change depending upon the number of steps in the manufacturing process of an item whereas sales tax is levied on each stage, thereby meaning that consumers at the end of the chain are paying taxes on something that has already had taxes levied on it at each stage of its production.

As an example, imagine you buy a bike - it's made up of a frame, 2 wheels, a seat, pedals, handlebars, a chain, etc... For simplicity, we'll say that sales tax is 10%. Each individual component of the bike that is manufactured is taxed when bought from the supplier (or when the raw materials are purchased if they are manufactured rather than bought as an end product). The wheels cost £1 each excl sales tax, or £1.10 including tax, multiplied by 2 = £2.20. The frame costs £10 + £1 sales tax, the chain costs £0.50 + £0.05 sales tax, etc.. etc.. etc...

Overall, let's imagine the bike costs £50 excluding sales tax. Because sales tax is levied at each stage, though, the total cost is £55. However, when a consumer buys the bike at £55, sales tax is again applied making the final cost £60.50.

Now let's imagine that VAT has gone back to 17.5%. The same bike built from the same components from the same manufacturers still costs £50 excluding VAT. VAT isn't added at each stage of the manufacturing process, so the total cost remains £50. When a consumer buys the bike, VAT is applied at 17.5% which makes the final cost £58.75.

As you can see, from the perspective of a consumer, VAT is actually a fairer tax than sales tax because you're not getting taxed on something that tax has already levied against.


What are you talking about?

VAT is applied at each stage of production it is 'value added tax'.

Sales tax is only charged to the consumer.

The overall affect on price from any viewpoint is the same. VAT is just easier to manage as businesses don't have to verify who is the end user or consumer, they just charge everyone vat and reclaim all their VAT, the net result is that they pay over the margin or the 'value added' percentage.
 

mjt

mjt

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People accept all sorts of taxes, especially in the UK. :mad:

what?

tax in the UK is rather low in comparison to other countries in the EU

Could be worse for you, too, Antar... you could be Swedish, Finnish, Icelandic, Norwegian or Danish. Fancy paying 25% VAT...? :eek:

quite. living in norway can be a drag.
it's not just the 25% VAT, it's the other ludicrous taxes and duties they stick on top.

tbh the only thing worth moaning about in the UK is the weakness of the sterling
 
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Soldato
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As far as I understand, the reason we have VAT is because we used to have another type of tax where the entirety of the tax was paid by the final person (the retailer). This put pressure on retailers, but other parts of the chain were tax free, thus making it fairly easy to skip paying the tax if the retailer just pocketed it.

Nowadays, the tax is still paid on the difference between the original cost of the materials and the "added value" final price (VAT = Value Added Tax) but because it is broken down, each time someone sells it onto the next person they collect the tax for the part that *they* did making it far harder to dodge paying tax.

Taxes have to be paid - that is all there is to it. So would you prefer it was easier to dodge, or seperated out into pieces? As a consumer I don't really care, I still pay the same...
 
Soldato
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i propose they sell of the gold reserves oh erm wait seems someone already did

Why sell them for billions... when we could sell them for millions

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Soldato
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Soldato
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Unfortunately we currently live in a world in which public services, such as NHS, Education, Emergency Services, Benefits for the poor and disabled need money in order to operate. And as such, reducing VAT by a further 10% would just leave these VITAL and MORAL and IMPORTANT services without the funding that they require.

I'm not about to discuss the efficiency of these services, or if they need to be remanaged, or whatever - point is, everyone should have the right to healthcare, education and emergency services (law enforcement, fire control, etc) - to deny them that because the system requires that they pay sums to private companies is ridiculous. I'd rather not exist in the backwards USA. Thanks.
 

daz

daz

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By my reckoning we are overpaying $400bn in tax in the UK compared to Japan to get a worse service.

In the grand scheme of things (taking into account the western world as a whole, not just 3 countries cherry picked) - we are taxed about average and we have about average public services. I wouldn't say we're being ripped off, but we're probably also not getting the best value for money either. At the same time when considering "value for money" - look at the USA - spending more than twice as much per capita on a health system that doesn't even cover everyone. :(
 

daz

daz

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Thing is, why do we always have to compare ourselves to the EU? (btw Canary Islands only have 5%).

Do you have any idea of the GDP in the canary islands? What it's like to live there (not just being an expat spending their last years in the sun - but to actually live)?

There's a reason why people come to the UK. We are in general a very prosperous nation with opportunities abound.
 
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