Another agreement here, common sense
If the charges aren't dropped....
- Thread starter Jeff Lynne
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Another agreement here, common sense
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As I stated, I'll respect them if they do it properly and not just inform me what pages on the questions are on.
Soldato
Can't really comment on the specific case other than that something seems to have gone tragically wrong, for both sides.
However would add that at (nearly) 48 years of age, I was another of those who attended school when corporal punishment (amongst other means) was the accepted means of dealing with serious discipline breaches. It would be naive to suggest there was never any trouble, you got the inevitable playground "scrap" a few times a week and there was bullying behind the scenes. But pupils always knew where to draw the line and that was showing respect to the teachers and reverential awe to the headmaster. We joked quietly that a chemistry teacher looked like a mad scientist but that was as far as it went. The mass singing, class against the teacher described in this case would have been unheard of.
Of course our whole society was different then, none of the mobile phone, happy slapping, Internet Twittering lifestyle todays youngsters have. The deterrent worked as whether by luck or judgement (or being a goody two shoes) I never got in sufficiently serious trouble to get a dreaded, "Go to the Head's office NOW!" It wasn't even necessarily the prospect of the physical pain, but more the humiliation and feeling of letting yourself and peers down.
Unfortunately I fear the prospect of corporal punishment returning to schools has about as much chance as the return of hanging for murder. Would many teachers or heads these days even be prepared to wield it or would you need to employ private security personnel to administer punishment? The current breed of touchy feely wooly headed weak minded politicians have no stomach and ultimately, the concept of corporal punishment has been banned by the EU.
However would add that at (nearly) 48 years of age, I was another of those who attended school when corporal punishment (amongst other means) was the accepted means of dealing with serious discipline breaches. It would be naive to suggest there was never any trouble, you got the inevitable playground "scrap" a few times a week and there was bullying behind the scenes. But pupils always knew where to draw the line and that was showing respect to the teachers and reverential awe to the headmaster. We joked quietly that a chemistry teacher looked like a mad scientist but that was as far as it went. The mass singing, class against the teacher described in this case would have been unheard of.
Of course our whole society was different then, none of the mobile phone, happy slapping, Internet Twittering lifestyle todays youngsters have. The deterrent worked as whether by luck or judgement (or being a goody two shoes) I never got in sufficiently serious trouble to get a dreaded, "Go to the Head's office NOW!" It wasn't even necessarily the prospect of the physical pain, but more the humiliation and feeling of letting yourself and peers down.
Unfortunately I fear the prospect of corporal punishment returning to schools has about as much chance as the return of hanging for murder. Would many teachers or heads these days even be prepared to wield it or would you need to employ private security personnel to administer punishment? The current breed of touchy feely wooly headed weak minded politicians have no stomach and ultimately, the concept of corporal punishment has been banned by the EU.
Soldato
Getting old doesnt bother me, what does bother me though is having to rely on todays youths when im retired!
I respect the elderly because of what they gave up for me to be here now, both my grand parents were in the navy during WW2, so i automatically respect people of that age even if they dont respect me.
The same for teachers, police officers, i respect them because they have chosen to help others, which lets be honest a majority of people aren't thankful for.
I dont think kids of today will ever understand the meaning of respect the same way I do or anyone else of my age or older.
Kids today get away with so much they dont realise just how easy they have it.
I respect the elderly because of what they gave up for me to be here now, both my grand parents were in the navy during WW2, so i automatically respect people of that age even if they dont respect me.
The same for teachers, police officers, i respect them because they have chosen to help others, which lets be honest a majority of people aren't thankful for.
I dont think kids of today will ever understand the meaning of respect the same way I do or anyone else of my age or older.
Kids today get away with so much they dont realise just how easy they have it.
Man of Honour
But did you live in FEAR of the teachers like some of the younger ones in this thread think we did?
Soldato
I never feared my teachers, i respected them, the only fear i had was the cane, and it was because of that i didnt play up in lessons, i did what i was meant to do, learn!.
Incase anyone is wondering, I am only 30 but spent 4 years in a bording school in South Africa where the cane was very much in use, wasnt abolished until around 1997.
Incase anyone is wondering, I am only 30 but spent 4 years in a bording school in South Africa where the cane was very much in use, wasnt abolished until around 1997.
Soldato
Certainly not (though there were a couple of female teachers at the catholic primary school who were a bit scary!), ultimately they were in charge and you respected that authority plus the fact at the end of it all they were trying to instill an education into my thick skull!
Soldato
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That's just patently wrong though and generalising. Saying its "easy" for all kids nowadays couldn't be further from the truth.
Children will and should not have respect for the type of opinions that you're displaying because you're just talking them down and they'll never live up to your 'standards' anyway so its pointless them even trying.
The funny thing is, I didn't 'respect' any teacher that beat me. I hated their guts. I respected the teachers who taught me, not those that humiliated children for their own sick reasons. There were, and still are, many of them about.
Soldato
I do talk down to kids, because all i see now adays are chavvy brats doing what ever they want when ever they want with no consideration for those around them.
Kids blasting music out at 1am in the morning, without any consideration for people around them, call the police they just get arsey, and you'll probably find your tyres slashes and windows smashed for it.
The concequences for criminal activity are just not enough and kids do get away with so much its not even funny.
Eh? Where did I describe children as maggots? I'm the one that started the whole "Kids should have the same amount of respect as everyone else" argument.
Though, it is highly possible I have misread/misunderstood you, in which case, i apologise.
[Cas];14472658 said:Eh? Where did I describe children as maggots? I'm the one that started the whole "Kids should have the same amount of respect as everyone else" argument.
Though, it is highly possible I have misread/misunderstood you, in which case, i apologise.
ahh sorry i'd forgot most of the post when i wrote that >.<
Yeah my bad, sorry.
Haha, no problem.
Just didn't want people thinking i had the same, odd views as Jeff Lynne.
I remember an incident at High school when a friend of mine drove a music teacher crazy to the point where he ended up belting him one. I very much doubt this will be the last time a teacher flips there lid we are only human at the the end of the day not that I condone what he done!
When you get to a certain level the teachers have to simply prepare you for your exams, and with mathematics sometimes the best way to get you to remember the principles are simply by learning through reinforcement. When I was taking A level mathematics my teacher was (in my opinion, and those of many of my peers) probably the finest teacher we'd ever encountered and even HE made us do a shed load of repetetive questions. It's a valid teaching technique.
Just to show how little students often know about teaching - my wife is a science teacher and has on occasion has the odd child complaining to her that 'she's not teaching them', when the item in question is actually just one of those things that you have to learn by rote (as the reasons/theories behind them are very advanced and frankly not required at GCSE, A or even degree level). Lots of students think they know what makes a great teacher but they are normally misguided. I see the effort that goes into each of her lessons, it's outstanding and the children are lucky to have her as a teacher. She tries to make every lesson relate to them in certain ways, or inject some fun - she's teaching a lesson on microbes today and doing a fun test by secretly lacing some of the handouts with a UV reactive powder to show how easily they can be passed from person to person (using a black light at the end of the lesson to highlight the point).
As for respect, there should be the assumption of respect initially from the pupil to the teacher, after all, they have already finished school with decent marks, completed a degree, taken a difficult post-graduate teaching qualification and finally been through a year at newly qualified status (which includes masses of lesson observations and feedback); all of that deserves respect. My wife also spent 3 years getting her doctorate - so in her case that's 7 years of post-school education. If you cannot initially respect academic achievement and hard work then it says everything about you that I personally need to know.
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Soldato
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Agreed.
My wife is also a science teacher, and I get to hear day-in day-out about just how well run schools are, and what teachers have to put up with.
Unruly children, thieving scrotes, vandalism, verbal abuse, threats, physical assault and more - all within the less than seven hours found in a school day.
But hey, you know what, I'm sure she deserves it because she doesn't put the effort in to really teach these kids or earn their respect.
There's an automatic level respect you should have for teachers. These people are academics, and they are devoting their lives to making sure you can better yours. If you walk straight into a room and think "I don't respect you until you earn it, sir", you are quite frankly ignorant. Fair enough, if a teacher acts like a complete and utter ****, feel free to chuck away any respect you may have had for them (I know I did with a couple in school).
Others have mentioned in the past that being disciplined in school made you think about what you had done, and I think that rings true. I was never scared of any teachers, but the moment it happened - "GET OUT OF MY ROOM!" - you felt your heart sink. The walk of shame to the headmaster's office - you considered what you had done, how you had not only let yourself down, but your teacher and classmates....and God help you when you got home. It was an automatic response from your conscience in that situation.
From what I can tell, and what I've seen and been told from the (many) teachers I now know, that conscience is completely missing in a huge amount of school-age children these days. They simply don't care. In fact, if a teacher attempts to throw them out, they begin screaming "I know my rights! You're denying me my education!" when all they are actually doing is acting like a prat and disrupting everyone else. The parents are no better.
I think that this whole debacle should at least begin a public discussion/forum regarding the type of support available for teachers - what they have to go through and the potential to avoid things like this. Schoolrooms have been going off the rails for years, but the Government is happy enough to sweep it under the rug - including striking off whistleblowers - and now we have a child hospitalised in the chaos. The teacher here is just as much a victim as that kid.
However, it's good to see that not much changes and, instead, we have the usual ****-spouting know-it-alls screaming about how teachers have it so easy and the fantastic adage, "If they don't like it, they can find another job".
Yeah....that'll leave the Country in a fantastic academic state down the line, won't it?
Soldato
That's not respect for the man, that's respect for the power of his occupation.
Respect isn't absolute; you cna respect aspects of a person's personality and what they do and yet still abhor others.