Schools are levying more 'holiday fines' on parents

Soldato
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The kids should be in school. Taking them out to go on holidays just because it's cheaper is not acceptable and very shortsighted.

The prices for package holidays are determined by supply and demand. Demand is higher during schools holiday periods therefore the prices go up to regulate the market. The holiday companies can't just buy extra capacity for a couple of weeks - they contract with hoteliers a set capacity for the season, hence all the £129 special offers just to fill rooms at the end of the season. They're probably selling them at a loss but an occupied room makes less of a loss than an empty room.

Maybe there's a case to stagger the school holiday periods depending on region across the country, but that just creates more headaches in other areas.
 

RDM

RDM

Soldato
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Indeed you could, and schools have no flexibility to offer because there is no choice.

Actually schools do have the flexibility to offer it. It is generally up to the school to authorise absence or not. What we do not have, as parents, is the ability to pick and choose schools, there is an illusion of choice rather than a real choice..

These issues aren't really individual, they are all results of the system in place and the attempts to address problems with it through the application of the state's monopoly of force rather than recognising the cause of the problems.

Not entirely, though obviouslyI feel more choice would be a better thing (I actually quite like the Conservative voucher scheme for example). There is no real need for this fine system to be implemented. There are already procedures in place for parents that are failing in their duty to educate their child properly why not use these rather than levy additional fines? What sort of relationship are you going to have with a school that has fined you? Surely that is going to be more detrimental than a week off here and there?
 
Soldato
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I wouldn't agree that it'd set a bad example for the children as I think children need to have a healthy perspective of all aspects of life, and school has way too much importance placed up on it.

I don't mean they shouldn't take school seriously, not at all, but simply that it's not healthy for kids to take school as serious as they're told to.

Exactly how I feel and how I was brought up. I still take work seriously but there is more to life than that. In my case if my mum had time off we'd be allowed to take a day off school and just have a lazy day. Good thing for the family to do and nice to spend some time together.

Never went on holidays though, but that's because we never had the money even in the off peak season. :o
 
Man of Honour
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Actually schools do have the flexibility to offer it. It is generally up to the school to authorise absence or not. What we do not have, as parents, is the ability to pick and choose schools, there is an illusion of choice rather than a real choice..

Perhaps I should have said they have no incentive to offer flexibility (or refuse to offer it) because there is no competitive pressure.

Not entirely, though obviouslyI feel more choice would be a better thing (I actually quite like the Conservative voucher scheme for example). There is no real need for this fine system to be implemented. There are already procedures in place for parents that are failing in their duty to educate their child properly why not use these rather than levy additional fines? What sort of relationship are you going to have with a school that has fined you? Surely that is going to be more detrimental than a week off here and there?

The problem is the relationship both ways at the moment is a coercive one from the state. The parent is forced to send the child to school (and probably the nearest one only), and the school is forced to accept the child, neither have anything in the way of choice. Until that massive flaw in the system is addressed, the problem will remain. The addition of fines is simply a sticking plaster attempt to treat a symptom, not the cause.
 
Soldato
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Most people on average are in schooling from 5-16. so we are talking 11 years of thier life.

If i was a parent and i wanted to take my child away on a holday 1/2 week(s) before the end of term i would ask them if they want to go on holiday and can they still keep up with any work they miss. People don't seem to trust thier kids in this thread and i doubt (and know) the odd week or two off A YEAR, will not turn your child into a blithering idiot.

Some kids will miss more than that week over the period of a school term for illness etc, so in the long picture it doesn't really matter to me. we're talking a week, two at most. not a 3 months cruise of south america.
 
Soldato
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Half of year 8 and 9 was rehashes of things we had learned back in year 5 and 6 at primary school. I don't see an issue with missing it. Hell, our Geography lessons were done using the same textbooks as in primary school!
 
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It's really hard to resist picking at people's spelling, punctuation and grammar in a thread about justifying taking time off from school.

I agree, I've seen "there" instead of "their" used quite a few times by the very person ranting about how there shouldn't be any authorised absence for holidays.
 
Caporegime
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This, utter stupidity taking kids out of school for a holiday.

Also shop around or go somewhere cheaper. Plenty of places you can go on a budget even in holiday periods.

What if not taking your kids out of school meant you couldn't take them on holiday? I was taken out of school for two weeks in a few years as well as the (very occasional then) week skiing in January. If we had to go during summer we wouldn't have been able to afford to go. And just to point out my summer holidays when I was younger consisted of two weeks camping in France or Belgium, not Florida or the Maldives.

My parents logic (and the logic I will take) is that you will learn a damn site more in a week or two in a foreign country about languages, history and sport than you would in school. We always made sure we picked up any important work we were going to miss before too. It never affected my education in the least and I carried this on during Uni too, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to go skiing.

[DOD]Asprilla;15886901 said:
School is important, but I refuse to believe that taking a child out occasionally has a major impact upon their education.

This. I don't think it affected me, and tbh I think it benefited me. I know far more about europe and the culture/language/history than most of my peers.

Yes it may be slightly different for those that just go to Florida but they still deserve the "right" to be able to go somewhere they couldn't otherwise afford.

TBH I think you should be allowed up to two and a half weeks off school for valid reasons (holiday and a couple of days sick) but any more and then the fines can come in. Schools and the government have far too much influence on what you can do with your kids these days and it's realy worrying.
 
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Wow, I can't beleive people are actually getting in a hissy over parents taking their kids out of school for the odd holiday.

These fines are ridiculous, if someone wants to go on holiday for a week or so then who gives a flying ****. One week will not impair them in the slightest, it's school, not rocket science.
 
Man of Honour
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Hell why are these people paying the fines?

As someone has posted the fine is used as an alternative to parents being prosecuted. I assume it's a bit like a fixed penalty don't agree go to court.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8496345.stm
In England, parents can be fined £50 per child if it is paid within 28 days, rising to £100 or a court appearance afterwards.

Snip
Have a care, it looks awfully like you are insinuating that parents who take their children out of school during term time either don't care about their children or are stupid. That may not be your intention but it looks like a rather foolish generalisation as it stands.


If you read the line I think it's quite clear that I'm talking about parents who don't give a stuff about education and this is where state needs to protect the kids.
I'm not the only one who thinks this and it seems to be very much what your parents taught you as to where you lie on the subject, which isn't surprising.
In my opinion you should not have time of, however you are allowed to and most people seem to be missing the point. This fine is only for unauthorised time and instead of prosecution.
But anyway lets get back to the topic of fines and/or prosecutions for unauthorised holidays.


These fines are ridiculous, if someone wants to go on holiday for a week or so then who gives a flying ****.
One week will not impair them in the slightest, it's school,

.

That is fine and allowed. This is unauthorised holidays, not any holidays.

Even if that week is an important dead line or around exams?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8496345.stm
More parents are being fined for taking their children on holiday during term time without permission, figures obtained by the BBC suggest.

"They always seem to take them at key times for the schools, when we're trying to settle them into new environments or they even take them at times that coincide with exams."


But schools are given discretion to agree up to 10 days holiday a year, only if they feel there are exceptional reasons involved.


Some parents just pay the fine and factor it into the cost of the holiday
Head teacher, Julia Tinsley

Some schools take a carrot and stick approach, agreeing to requests for holidays if a child's attendance for the rest of the school year is above 95%.


This is the approach taken at Holly Lodge Girls College in Liverpool. But some parents still ignore the rules.

"Some parents just pay the fine and factor it into the cost of the holiday," said head teacher Julia Tinsley.

But she said sometimes parents do have good reasons for taking holidays in term time.

"We have some parents who are in the police force or fire brigade who have no choice about when to take their holiday, so we do have to be sensible about it."

Most schools have a sensible approach and as long as you are reasonable they will agree to it. i do not see a problem with this system. If you are going to take kids out of school for more than what is allowed or at critical times. Then you are not doing what is in the kids best interest.

I also agree with this
"I'm not sure that it has any effect whatsoever," said Phil Daniels, head teacher at Springwood Heath Primary School in Liverpool.

"Parents know they can save far more than that by taking a holiday in term time.

"It's better to have a good relationship with parents and make them understand that it is not in their child's best interests for them to miss too much school."

The punishment is in effective as it does not achieve anything and also a lot of schools just don't talk to parents and involve them like they used to. But I suppose that is down to school sizes increasing, time and probably some PC stuff.
 
Last edited:
Associate
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If I was to apply this to my school I wouldn’t of ever worried about taking a week off in the middle of term time. So I guess all the people saying that it harms education went to good schools. My school was terrible but I hope that things have changed a bit in the last 15 years(even though it really seems to have got worse in the lower years).

Being a parent I would say it would depend on the child’s age. It seems that younger children do less than I did when at school and the first few years might as well be child care given the lession plans of playing with toys and listening to story cds.

Education is important so in the important years I wouldn’t personally but maybe in the lower years given what I have currently seen as "education". I think schools could show a more relaxed approach something like if the teachers agree that the student can catch up given what the lesion plan is for week X. This of course wouldn’t work but meh just an idea.
 
Soldato
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I think to be honest it depends on the child whether they should be allowed more than one week holiday. If a child is bright/at the top of the class, consistent with completing homework to a good level then they should be allowed more time off as they are a lot more likely to either catch up or be ahead before they leave for holiday. Whereas if your kid struggles and isn't good at completing homework then extra time out of the classroom won't be a good idea.

I think from the article that it is probably the people who don't ask for the time out of school, with the kids who don't complete homework because the parents don't care so much and don't insist on it to be done, or that they get it completed at the last minute the night before just when they are about to go to bed, so they aren't focused properly.

I agree that children shouldn't be taken out of school when there are exams soon, no matter how clever the child is.
 

RDM

RDM

Soldato
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Most schools have a sensible approach and as long as you are reasonable they will agree to it.

What if they don't? What if the school has a completely anal approach and will not authorise anything? (Like the pre-school that was mentioned previously in this thread, not authorising a holidy for schooling a child doesn't even have to attend!).
 
Associate
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Ive not read every page. But isn't this easy enough to get around? You just phone and tell them your child is sick. No Fine and Holiday.
 
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