*** Dell UltraSharp U2410 24" Widescreen LCD Monitor @ £447.99 inc VAT ***

[fulcrumer]

How would you say the colours are in 'game mode'? I've seen reports that say it looks "greenish".

Very bright! Even with the brightness turned down to 40 contrast 49.

Not greenish at all

 

[daddyorchips]

Well, ordered. It'll be interesting to compare this to my current Hazro HZ24Wi.

 

[lay-z-boy]

How would you say the colours are in 'game mode'? I've seen reports that say it looks "greenish".

I get more saturated colours on my ps3 and x360 when using game mode.

 

[_SBradley_]

Hey guys,

I've found myself reconsidering this monitor, after being scared away by all the reports of tinting soon after it was released.

Has anything changed? Anyone with an A01 (hardware revision) had the tinting issue? I'm pretty sure the hardware change itself couldn't have fixed the problem, but maybe the fabrication, assembly, or selection process has been improved since a few months ago!?

 

[fulcrumer]

Hey guys,

I've found myself reconsidering this monitor, after being scared away by all the reports of tinting soon after it was released.

Has anything changed? Anyone with an A01 (hardware revision) had the tinting issue? I'm pretty sure the hardware change itself couldn't have fixed the problem, but maybe the fabrication, assembly, or selection process has been improved since a few months ago!?

I believe they have have altered the hardware for this revision. Now that it has burnt in and I have got used to it I am very pleased with mine - A01 hardware version/Feb

 

[SpAceD]

I have this monitor and was lucky enough to have no dead pixels or tinting. I have only had it 2 weeks though, so I think I have A01.

I haven't checked - where is revision located, I'm guessing on the back? I should stop being lazy and look shouldn't I?

 

[Baddass]

I believe they have have altered the hardware for this revision. Now that it has burnt in and I have got used to it I am very pleased with mine - A01 hardware version/Feb

they've only altered the firmware with the latest revision, something users can even do themselves with the A00 if they want. This only corrects the dithering issue in sRGB/AdobeRGB mode problem, with the tinting being more of a hardware manufacturing defect which they cant fix with a software/firmware change. not heard anything about any production changes to be honest

 

[Bint Box]

Can anyone confirm if A01 Hardware with A01 Firmware fixes the dithering issue and the tint issue for this monitor? Some vendors are claiming that both the tint and dithering issues are now fixed with the March 2010 stocks using A01 Hardware & A01 Firmware or is that just the usual sales spiel?

I am seriously looking at this monitor but wobbling from the litany of horror stories about people having 4 or 5 monitors before they get a good one. There must be an huge number of these returns/refurbs floating round the auction sites etc.

Thx for any help

Binty

 

[lay-z-boy]

There isn't any A01 hardware, just A01 firmware.

If you suffer from dithering and you have an A00 you can flash it anyway. The main problem is getting a good panel to begin with, that where the tinting problems come in. Neither A00 or A01 will resolve a bad panel.

 

[fulcrumer]

I have this monitor and was lucky enough to have no dead pixels or tinting. I have only had it 2 weeks though, so I think I have A01.

I haven't checked - where is revision located, I'm guessing on the back? I should stop being lazy and look shouldn't I?

It will be on the box and on the slide out tag on the left hand side bythe two USB ports.

 

[Bint Box]

laz-y-boy,

Thx for the info.

It really is just a lottery then, you part with your £400 or thereabouts and just pray and hope that you get a good panel, with a high chance of getting a "pig in a poke", unbelievable state of affairs.

We really are mugs in the UK !


Rgds
Binty

 

[Alfie]

There isn't any A01 hardware, just A01 firmware.

If you suffer from dithering and you have an A00 you can flash it anyway. The main problem is getting a good panel to begin with, that where the tinting problems come in. Neither A00 or A01 will resolve a bad panel.

A01 hardware is on it's way. An extra chip will be integrated to take care of diterhing without compromising the analogue processing of composite and component inputs.

 

[MKay]

There isn't any A01 hardware, just A01 firmware.

This was previously thought to be the case but looks increasingly INCORRECT - IE there has indeed been a hardware revision with A01 screens.

What's changed is specifically related to the FRC, which has been moved from the U2410's scaler in Rev A00 screens. The (so-called) A01 firmware update for the U2410 just disables the FRC in Adobe and sRGB modes. This information is according to Denis friend, the Prad reviewer, who just reviewed the U2711 for prad.de, posting here: http://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/14011393-post509.html

You'll also note a poster later in the same thread ( http://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/14030870-post534.html ) posts a Factory Menu screen shot of his hardware A01 screen. What's of special note are that his Adobe and sRGB values are all 255. This is most definitely NOT the case in any A00 hardware screens, which (again) may be an indicator to the fact that there has indeed been a hardware change in A01. This may also partly explain a delay of almost 3 months in rolling out the fix, and the fact that some A00 screens flashed to A01 were not marked as A01 screens (because they aren't A01 - they're A00 with a firmware "fix" to disable the FRC in Adobe / sRGB modes).

What I'm not sure about are how these changes affect 10 bit colour mode on the U2410. Since hardly anybody has a 10 bit colour card right now etc, it's not like most people are going to know any difference. However, if you're going to go with a wide gamut screen, 10 bit colour support is more than a gimmick and actually quite desirable (If you're not sure why check the next post about the ICM file).

 

[MKay]

have they sorted out the profile yet?

Yes. They posted beta version 3 recently ( http://en.community.dell.com/forums/t/19321152.aspx ). With Beta 1 they attempted to blame Windows Photo Viewer for visual issues with converting sRGB images (certain images looked terrible), until it was pointed out Firefox did the same. With Beta 2 greyscale gradient images contained banding, which they've now fixed in beta version 3. Version 3 fixes all the problems I noticed at least, so unless someone notices something soon that'll probably be the one that will soon be submitted for Windows Hardware Qualification and put out with the drivers on Windows Update.

BTW - Don't think the ICM's adjustments in Wide Gamut modes come for free though. EG to emulate sRGB colours in wide gamut modes several million values must be ditched in order for the colour to look accurate. What that means is your U2410 will be showing most ordinary sRGB content (designed for a 16.7 million colour sRGB screen) as 14.5 million colours or less inside colour managed apps. So you get colours that do look accurate, but the pictures actually lose some of the detail compared to an ordinary sRGB screen, or just using the U2410 without an ICM file. This pic shows you the colours Firefox throws away when the U2410 ICM is used to emulate sRGB. http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3627/u2410icmv3rgb.png The good news is the double value banding is really hard to spot in the sRGB gradient images, so the latest ICM is finally doing a nice job.. Previous versions were poor.

Although the limitations don't look so bad at all, and are now harder to spot with this latest ICM file, the bottom line is if I was telling someone what monitor to buy now (having realized all this) I'd tell them to buy an sRGB screen and avoid a wide gamut screen unless the panel is 10 bit. A 10 bit panel gives you 1024 RGB values, which is enough for an ICM file to emulate all 256 sRGB colours inside a wide gamut mode without dropping some colour values.

Of course you still need the apps to be colour managed, but when that happens a wide gamut screen becomes a non-issue and actually a true advantage on 10 bit panels. On 8 bit panels it kinda screws everything up since EG red 255 on a wide gamut screen is a lot more red than red 255 on an sRGB screen, and the only way to fix it is to remove about 10% of the red so that the red brightest value is actually down at 220! Again, there's just no way (AFAIK) for an 8 bit wide gamut screen to show those colours properly in a wide gamut mode, using an ICM file, without apps dropping millions of values from images to make the colours look ok. Granted, it doesn't look too bad at all, but when you buy a 16.7 million colour screen you kinda expect 16.7 million colours, and not a few million colours less - which is what you'll effectively get with most content (since it is produced for sRGB screens) when you use the ICM file.

Although the U2410 supports a 10 bit A-FRC dithered mode (the U2410's panel can emulate 10 bit, which is 1024 values for RGB, just like TN panels emulate 8 bit), Dells own engineers have said they don't know if 10 bit mode would solve the sorts of problem mentioned above, although they did say the ICM file supports 1024 points internally. Basically people are going to have to test this stuff with 10 bit colour output cards to know, since Dell aren't saying. Since any supposed A01 hardware changes may relate to this, it might also bring up more issues about hardware A00 screens Vs A01 when people do try to use a card with 10 bit colour output via displayport.

 

[Midget^]

Does anyone know how or know where I can find the files to flash back to A00? I really wish I'd known flashing world bork composite and component inputs because it looks like crap now (though in all fairness it wasn't *great* before but it was fine) .

 

[MKay]

Does anyone know how or know where I can find the files to flash back to A00? I really wish I'd known flashing world bork composite and component inputs because it looks like crap now (though in all fairness it wasn't *great* before but it was fine) .

It's not out there unfortunately, so you can't. If it were the file should be called U2410_M1F190_0DFF.bin, because the firmware instruction PDF for the A00 to A01 update process actually shows a screenshot of a file directory which lists the MF190 file (Which is the Firmware Rev A00 screens use) and its checksum (0DFF) in the directory.

Btw - Have you tried using all the modes on the U2410 (other than sRGB or Adobe mode) and seeing if they produce the same results for you with composite or component? Curious if that would change anything related to the problem for you?....

 

[lay-z-boy]

A01 hardware is on it's way

So there will be three revisions, A00, A01 and A01 + h/w?

Blimey.

An extra chip will be integrated to take care of diterhing without compromising the analogue processing of composite and component inputs.

That's a bit harsh on owners who bought into them early on and got A00 or got A01 flashed A00 h/w with the intention of using the older analogue ports.

Personally, doesn't bother me. With 4 separate digital inputs I don't plan on hooking up analogue stuff. I have a TV for that.



MKay, that's a boatload of info, nice one. Also, cheers for the profile.

 

[Alfie]

Megadrive

 

[Ashfield]

Yes. They posted beta version 3 recently ( http://en.community.dell.com/forums/t/19321152.aspx ). With Beta 1 they attempted to blame Windows Photo Viewer for visual issues with converting sRGB images (certain images looked terrible), until it was pointed out Firefox did the same. With Beta 2 greyscale gradient images contained banding, which they've now fixed in beta version 3. Version 3 fixes all the problems I noticed at least, so unless someone notices something soon that'll probably be the one that will soon be submitted for Windows Hardware Qualification and put out with the drivers on Windows Update.

BTW - Don't think the ICM's adjustments in Wide Gamut modes come for free though. EG to emulate sRGB colours in wide gamut modes several million values must be ditched in order for the colour to look accurate. What that means is your U2410 will be showing most ordinary sRGB content (designed for a 16.7 million colour sRGB screen) as 14.5 million colours or less inside colour managed apps. So you get colours that do look accurate, but the pictures actually lose some of the detail compared to an ordinary sRGB screen, or just using the U2410 without an ICM file. This pic shows you the colours Firefox throws away when the U2410 ICM is used to emulate sRGB. http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3627/u2410icmv3rgb.png The good news is the double value banding is really hard to spot in the sRGB gradient images, so the latest ICM is finally doing a nice job.. Previous versions were poor.

Although the limitations don't look so bad at all, and are now harder to spot with this latest ICM file, the bottom line is if I was telling someone what monitor to buy now (having realized all this) I'd tell them to buy an sRGB screen and avoid a wide gamut screen unless the panel is 10 bit. A 10 bit panel gives you 1024 RGB values, which is enough for an ICM file to emulate all 256 sRGB colours inside a wide gamut mode without dropping some colour values.

Of course you still need the apps to be colour managed, but when that happens a wide gamut screen becomes a non-issue and actually a true advantage on 10 bit panels. On 8 bit panels it kinda screws everything up since EG red 255 on a wide gamut screen is a lot more red than red 255 on an sRGB screen, and the only way to fix it is to remove about 10% of the red so that the red brightest value is actually down at 220! Again, there's just no way (AFAIK) for an 8 bit wide gamut screen to show those colours properly in a wide gamut mode, using an ICM file, without apps dropping millions of values from images to make the colours look ok. Granted, it doesn't look too bad at all, but when you buy a 16.7 million colour screen you kinda expect 16.7 million colours, and not a few million colours less - which is what you'll effectively get with most content (since it is produced for sRGB screens) when you use the ICM file.

Although the U2410 supports a 10 bit A-FRC dithered mode (the U2410's panel can emulate 10 bit, which is 1024 values for RGB, just like TN panels emulate 8 bit), Dells own engineers have said they don't know if 10 bit mode would solve the sorts of problem mentioned above, although they did say the ICM file supports 1024 points internally. Basically people are going to have to test this stuff with 10 bit colour output cards to know, since Dell aren't saying. Since any supposed A01 hardware changes may relate to this, it might also bring up more issues about hardware A00 screens Vs A01 when people do try to use a card with 10 bit colour output via displayport.

thanks mate, ill give that a go

 

[lay-z-boy]

Megadrive

I see.

All my old consoles are either on scart or component to a tv. As per my post earlier, I was shocked at how bad anything looked through composite/component on dell 24" screens.