Why do people feel the need to offer bad advice on upgrades?

[PhoenixUK]

Hell a stock i7 920 spanks the 965 @ 4ghz

Keep living in your own little world.
In some cases i7@4ghz isn't any better than 35quid athlonII and there is nothing you can do about it unless you make some sort of world breaking invention that will change the current world of OS and gaming totally.

I would stop feeding the troll...
he is very good at showing 1/2 truths and mis-information.

Nobody recommended 965 with 150quid mobo and silly expensive ram for the same price as i5. Stop posting BS.

If I ever recommended AMD over intel, there will be at least 50-200quid difference in price that could either be saved or be used on something more adequate for the budget.

Stop lying for gods sake...
Maybe you should be banned for giving wrong information and trolling ?


Lock the damn thread already tbh, he's keep posting his own thruths even if everyone states something different.

It's funny how you will just ignore all the facts that work against you and just keep posting the same BS over and over again.

 

[easyrider]

i5 is a dead platform with NO upgrade path and not dual PCI-E 16 so pointless for 'high' end gamming

People who can afford two top end cards can usually afford x58

You haven't as far as I am aware so please correct me if I am wrong.. actually owned either a 955BE or a 965BE.. where as I actually have owned and clocked and have real world experience of both the above and i7 and can therefore offer actual advise from a holistic perspective.. rather than just pointing to the same set of select benchmarks

I myself have not owned a 965BE...But I have a friend that does and he plays games....TBH in games its OK but in other stuff like Vegas 9 its not so good.

It certainly isn't worth the price tag of of 150 though. Its no where need that good compared to an i5 both in gaming and video editing for example when running both are running at 4ghz.

 

[easyrider]

Keep living in your own little world.
In some cases i7@4ghz isn't any better than 35quid athlonII and there is nothing you can do about it unless you make some sort of world breaking invention that will change the current world of OS and gaming totally.

At that resolution its a pointless benchmark.Well documented on the net this one.

Thanks for posting it again though

 

[drunkenmaster]

However at i5 750 pricing there is no reason to buy Phenom II 965 or AMD .



Buying the best for your money is.


If you have the funds then why not?

Couldn't be wrong on more accounts really for me, firstly an i5 is a somewhat dead platform, AM3 is coming to a close aswell, but at least you'll be able to get some tasty 6 core chips for quite a while to come.

If I was buying now I wouldn't recommend a quad, I would recommend something cheap, its utter crap you need a quad for gaming, a very small number of games need a quad...... USING 4 cores and NEEDING 4 cores are VERY different things.

In a lot of games I play my quad will use all the cores, but invariably I won't often be above 50% cpu usage, infact very rarely and while 1 or even 2 cores have large heavy threads on them, 2-3 cores often have very small amounts of working being done on them at any one time.

Considering the need to stay within XBOX 360 design limits some of the toughest quad core games, like Supreme Commander 2, is no where near as performance hungry as the previous version. Cryengine 3 and the next Crysis game is supposed to look better but be heavily optimised with LESS performance required.

The fact is upgrading to an expensive system and cpu with a dead end socket when Intel and AMD have some significant new stuff happening next year that will offer much better performance for your money and a long term new socket with years of upgrading options. I'd easily recommend a cheap dual core now, because it will more than cope with 95% of games released in the next year, by which time you can sell your cheap system for a small loss and spend that hard earned cash on a real upgrade that will last a heck of a long time.

Just because someone has £2k to spend doesn't mean buying a 6 core i7 is the best way he can spend that money, especially for gaming.

If I had £2k to spend I'd get vastly more value in buying a cheapo dual core system to last the year and spend the rest on a Bulldozer system next year, same goes with GPU's, I could buy a 5970, or 3 Fermi's, but a 5850 is great value, performance and easy overclocking and the money saved can go on a hugely better card next year when games actually need the extra power.

Thats from a starting point of your thread opened with talking about gaming and requirements and advice.

its fairly simple, your advise of buying a quad for gaming right now isn't valid, is pointless for most if not all games and won't change in the next year. You'd get better value as I said, holding out till next year.

For gaming other than a new GPU most CPU's dual core and up sold in the past 3 years are very capable at gaming. The massive majority of games out now and upcoming will work fine on a lightly overclocked £40 dual core. Recommending a £130+ quad, to play GTA 4, is VERY bad advice.

 

[Nelly]

Heres my opinion in short - Intel offers better price for money in virtually all scenarios.

Just be careful with the Intel Sockets (especially Intel P55), they are not very durable - too much pressure on the socket will void your warranty to bent/broken pins.

Example:

"I have 500 to spend on an upgrade I have been looking at these two specs.Which would you get?"

I use my PC for everything..


Intel Core i7 930 2.80Ghz (Bloomfield) (Socket LGA1366) - OEM £229.99
(£195.74) £229.99
(£195.74)
Asus P6T SE Intel X58 (Socket 1366) DDR3 Motherboard £149.99
(£127.65) £149.99
(£127.65)
OCZ Gold 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3 PC3-10666C9 Low-Voltage Triple Channel (OCZ3G1333LV6GK) £108.98
(£92.75) £108.98
(£92.75)
Sub Total : £416.14
Shipping cost assumes delivery to UK Mainland with:
DPD Next Day Parcel
(This can be changed during checkout) Shipping : £9.50
VAT is being charged at 17.50% VAT : £74.49
Total : £500.13


AMD Phenom II X4 Quad Core 965 Black Edition 3.40GHz (Socket AM3) - Retail £149.99
(£127.65) £149.99
(£127.65)
Gigabyte GA-790FXTA-UD5 (Socket AM3) PCI-Express DDR3 Motherboard £145.99
(£124.25) £145.99
(£124.25)
Corsair Dominator 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C8 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (CMD4GX3M2A1600C8) £139.99
(£119.14) £139.99
(£119.14)
Sub Total : £371.04
Shipping cost assumes delivery to UK Mainland with:
DPD Next Day Parcel
(This can be changed during checkout) Shipping : £9.00
VAT is being charged at 17.50% VAT : £66.51
Total : £446.55


Well anyone who suggest's the AMD rig clearly knows very little about PC hardware.

And yet I see it all the time.

Then we get the old little chestnut

"Well do you really need all that power?"

"why don't you get a Phenom II X2 instead and save some money....It will do everything you need"

OP - Well I have £500 to spend on an upgrade ...Just tell me which is the fastest please...Thats all

I'm glad thats just an example, anyone suggesting that ram with the both AMD & Intel rigs clearly knows very little about PC Hardware especially for gaming.

I've tested both Intel i920 rig using 6GB of ram & also my AMD PII 955 rig using various memory (expensive experiment) at various speeds & you don't get any real world benefit from using high specced ram compared to cheap £75 ram.

 

[IKMS]

I've tested both Intel i920 rig using 6GB of ram & also my AMD PII 955 rig using various memory (expensive experiment) at various speeds & you don't get any real world benefit from using high specced ram compared to cheap £75 ram.

I agree that it's not quality but quantity. I've experienced Kingston RAM Cards that are better than Corsair RAM Cards when the Corsair ones where 2x the price.

 

[easyrider]

Snip.

So you wouldn't advise to get a true quad over an X2 even if the price is like a tenner more?

Surely it doesn't hurt having a quad for gaming and then if you do some encoding or editing too.

Buying a quad allows the user to grow with the system no?

 

[Duke]

New games and windows 7 really need a quad these days.

Have to disagree with that. If you're building a high end system with SLI or XFire then yes get quad, but for most people a decent dual is perfectly fine and can either save money or be spent on other areas.

 

[PhoenixUK]

Well at least you now say that in games it's ok, before you were kept repeating that it's too slow.

And not sure if you know, but lowering resolution will only increase the FPS, not lower it so if w/e CPU does 80 or 100fps on 2560x1600, it can only get more at lower res, not less.
The difference might increase slightly and give lets say i7 bit more edge but it doesn't make the other CPUs any slower, without looking at the benchs you still won't be able to tell the difference in playability between the two.

And i5 is not that much ahead of pII, it wins and looses some, they're pretty equal unless as you said both i5 and pII are clocked to 4ghz then i5 wins more ( which is still not a huge difference in some cases), which is fine but that still doesn't make the pII any slower.

It's also not the same price which I've pointed before if you know what parts to use, you don't need 150quid mobo and 955 is usually just as good or 965 can be had elsewhere for price of 955 here. Also the i5 will require half decent cooling for 4ghz where 955 will sit at 3.8 straight out of the box on stock settings and even on most crappy 40quid motherboard since it has unlocked multi.


And again, just because someone can afford more, doesn't mean it's always worth it - take the gaming example, if there is no difference, then why pay more?
Why don't you buy urself 2kw PSU just because you can afford it while your system draws max 350? That's the point exactly, if you aren't going to use this extra power then there is no reason to pay extra.

And it's not only the case with e-mails, it's mainly gaming as well or general use too, would you rather advise i7 and 5870 to someone with ¬1000 budget who plays on 17inch monitor or pII/i5 with 5850 and new monitor instead?

Will you be able to tell the difference @1680x1050 GAMING between OCed x3 435 for 50quid and 5ghz i7? I don't think so. Fine, it will be 2-3x faster in vegas but if someone doesn't use it ??

Why don't you recommend 10TB space to someone if they can afford it just because they might use it in the future? And heck, tyrx2000 case just in case they decide to use extreme watercooling in 5yrs? Why not blu-ray instead of dvd even tho they not gonna use it - but hey, maybe someday they decide to use it, so they should buy it now if they can afford it ?

It's not only CPUs, it's the same case for all PC gear, with the speed of technology changing so fast now, the best advise is to buy what you NEED NOW, not what you maybe might need in 4yrs because in few months or maximum a year or two at worst, new tech that's 2x faster will cost 1/4 of the price you've paid.

I think you should go buy a bigger car right now, just because your family size might increase in 10yrs, it doesn't matter that you won't be using it for 10yrs and by that time you could buy one for 1/20th of the price but you should buy the most and best you can afford it right?

In your other post you've been praising how good SSDs are, why not buy cheaper CPU and SSD instead? At least then you'll see the difference where if your CPU isn't used to it's potential there is no difference at all?

 

[MikeHunt79]

You have two systems?

So what does this prove exactly?

Yep, 2 systems, a E5300 based rig and a Q6600 rig. Both running at around 3.6Ghz.

The E5300 is much cooler and quieter, uses less power, and seems to cope with all the applications and games I use so I use it 90% of the time.

I occasionally fire up the Q6600 rig for a game of GTA 4, but apart from that I prefer to use the E5300 as it seems to be more than fast enough for the apps and games I use. Quad isn't the best option for everyone, if someone was encoding all the time, go quad, otherwise dual is probably better.

 

[easyrider]

Yep, 2 systems, a E5300 based rig and a Q6600 rig. Both running at around 3.6Ghz.

The E5300 is much cooler and quieter, uses less power, and seems to cope with all the applications and games I use so I use it 90% of the time.

I occasionally fire up the Q6600 rig for a game of GTA 4, but apart from that I prefer to use the E5300 as it seems to be more than fast enough for the apps and games I use. Quad isn't the best option for everyone, if someone was encoding all the time, go quad, otherwise dual is probably better.

Why do you care about power if you have 2 rigs?

So you can't play GT4 on your dual core? You play it on your quad? But then you say the dual is better for games?

Why not just have one PC and sell one...Keep the Q6600 and buy a silent cooler to keep it cool. Or sell the Dual core rig and the Q6600 and get a Q9550 with the money?

I'm confused

 

[86JR]

Thats exactly not what I am saying you muppet


Who really asks for a spec just to check email? I mean who on ocuk starts a thread and says I need a PC for just email?

I'll ask again... I mean who on ocuk starts a thread and says I need a PC for just email?

Your missing the point.Re read the thread from the start....

What happens is people spec with brand loyaltiy in mind and not whats the best kit for the OP budget all the time and I am getting sick to the back teeth of people claiming they know about PC hardware when all they do is spec AMD systems when its not in the OP's best interest.

Now move away from the INTEL/AMD hangup you have and look at the bigger picture.

I would be saying exactly the same if people where speccing intel rigs over AMD's if it was not in the OP's best interest to do so.

If i posted up my requirements and asked for advice you would have told me i needed an i7 etc.

I actually have a quad core intel and would never go back to dual core. Ever.

However I saved over £300 at the time by staying with Q series quad core and not getting i7 and theres nothing I cant run perfectly.

Ive got that itch to upgrade but its pointless as theres nothing my current pc cant do that i7 can.

Also, in your post above where you spec an amd system vs an intel system, can i ask why you specced the most expensive motherboard and ram for the amd and the cheapest for the intel. Nice way of trying to get the total prices equal, except the amd was still £45 cheaper. LOL

 

[easyrider]

If i posted up my requirements and asked for advice you would have told me i needed an i7 etc.

Depends what your requirements were.

I actually have a quad core intel and would never go back to dual core. Ever.

Congrats

However I saved over £300 at the time by staying with Q series quad core and not getting i7 and theres nothing I cant run perfectly.

Congrats. I upgraded to i7 for £300 mobo chip and ram

I've got that itch to upgrade but its pointless as theres nothing my current pc cant do that i7 can.

Cool then you wouldn't be starting a thread asking about an upgrade.For stuff I do the faster the speed the better.

Also, in your post above where you spec an amd system vs an intel system, can i ask why you specced the most expensive motherboard and ram for the amd and the cheapest for the intel. Nice way of trying to get the total prices equal, except the amd was still £45 cheaper. LOL

It was to highlight a point.

 

[yslen]

That's my point.

Look its simple

I got your point already, don't worry. If a person was for whatever reason trying to spend exactly X amount on a system, you would be completely right. Personally though, I don't think having a fixed budget is the way to go about it, I think people just give a number because it makes others more likely to bother responding to their questions. I always try to look at what they actually need. Why arbitrarily spend £800 when you never use more than £400 worth of what you've bought? It seems I'm running out of ways to explain this now. Perhaps I'm not being as clear as I thought I was, or perhaps I'm missing something.

I of course understand that if someone is rolling in cash (hence the silly examples in my last post) then they can throw as much as they want into a PC even if they're just playing solitare on it. There are not many people in that situation though.

Also, I'm not saying AMD is better or trying to get people to buy AMD over Intel. My arguement is that a lot of people would get the same experience using less high-end parts, which just happens to be where AMD has an advantage. They have many more sub-£100 parts (new ones anyway) with a socket that likely has a lot of life in it yet. AM3 is what... a year old now?

Personally I wouldn't buy and Intel CPU that wasn't an i7 (with the newest socket) because I've never liked the way they change sockets so often - I'd have to get in at the start to feel it was worth my while locking myself into that particular socket. As I have no need for an i7 right now, I'm therefore buying AMD only. Makes sense to me - more power than I know what to do with, damned cheap and compatible with a load of interesting CPUs on the horizon.

 

[PhoenixUK]

It was to highlight a point.

Patriot Sector 5 Viper II 4GB (2x2GB) PC3-18000 2250MHz Dual Channel £349.99

Intel Core i3 540 3.06GHz (Clarkdale) (Socket LGA1156) - Retail £113.99

EVGA P55 Classified 200 Intel P55 (Socket 1156) DDR3 Motherboard £245.99
-----------------------
TOTAL = 710


VS


Asus M4A78LT-M LE AMD 760G (Socket AM3) DDR3 Motherboard £57.99
AMD Phenom II X4 Quad Core 955 Black Edition 3.20GHz £135.99
Patrtiot G Series Sector 5 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 PC3-10666C9 £79.99
----------------------
TOTAL = 274


OH MY GOD i3 IS SLOWER THAN PII AND IT'S ALMOST 3x THE PRICE !!??!

Let me counter your response already even before you post it the same way as you did.

It was to highlight a point.

 

[yslen]

So you can't play GT4 on your dual core? You play it on your quad? But then you say the dual is better for games?

I'm confused

Presumably he doesn't run both machines simultaneously.

Have you played GTA IV? Opinions on the game aside, the engine sucks majorly. It looks nice, but for some reason is really taxing on the CPU while the GPU isn't allowed to attempt anything that might be too difficult. The result is the CPU is always the bottleneck with this game, take a look at the charts. Above a certain point, every system you throw at it, regardless of price/spec gets you about 50fps.

 

[86JR]

I played gta iv perfectly fine on an e5200 maxed out ?

 

[easyrider]

So none of you AMD fans will get the 6 core cpu coming up?

As duals are all thats needed for games and why buy more power than you actually need?


Yeah right

 

[cyclops12]

 

[rypt]

So none of you AMD fans will get the 6 core cpu coming up?

As duals are all thats needed for games and why buy more power than you actually need?


Yeah right

Some of us do not only game, and though I'm probably going to move onto a Quad first as it is cheaper and it should still be an improvement for what I use my PC for.