Poll: *** 2010 General Election Result & Discussion ***

[Captain_Slick]

There's also the fact that our tax system isn't riddled with fraud and corruption like Greece's, which is one reason why they're in the mess they are.

 

[PMKeates]

2. Our debt is actually quite small compared to other industrialised countries (See Japan - their debt is 170%-198% of their GDP depending on which measure you judge it).

Comparing the UK economy to Japan's is kind of like sitting in hospital after having your leg blown off and going "well, I could have AIDS like the bigger guy in the next bed".

 

[rypt]

They had only 1 more seat than those who voted Labour. The SNP only have 47 out of 129 seats. Even so, the vote was based purely on forming a government with very limited powers. Something which meant that the SNP's stance on independence was not so important. You clearly don't understand the Scottish parliament, so please stop posting about something you don't understand.



Perhaps you should just have removed the North East and North West of England instead, as that would have had the same effect. It seems that you only want to get rid of Scotland because it happens to be an area of the UK that doesn't mirror your own opinion.

I have an understanding on Scottish parliament, SNP were able to get enough to form the minority government - which means that the other lot did not have enough support to oppose them.
It also means people voted SNP knowing full well that they want independence, much like people who vote BNP know full well what they are voting for, and people who vote UKIP know full well that UKIP want out of Europe.


I don't want to remove NE or NW ... they are not dissolved areas. Scotland is.

 

[gambitt]

Comparing the UK economy to Japan's is kind of like sitting in hospital after having your leg blown off and going "well, I could have AIDS like the bigger guy in the next bed".

PMSL

 

[Captain_Slick]

Comparing the UK economy to Japan's is kind of like sitting in hospital after having your leg blown off and going "well, I could have AIDS like the bigger guy in the next bed".

I wasn't comparing our economies, I was comparing our levels of debt. The difference is that they have an economy that can support it and we don't. That's why the deficit needs reducing and that's why all three parties are planning to do so.

Comparing our economy to Greece's though is a bit like a rich man who's got flu barging infront of a poor deaf child who's just had their face blown off in the emergency room.

 

[Rich_L]

I love the tories twisted logic in this matter. They say the people didn't vote for electoral reform, and they also say they won't give them a vote on electoral reform (referendum). It's really precious

Lots of people here too are terrified that anything other than FPTP will see their party lose power. Terrified of losing something they don't have a legitimate claim to have, and can only justify by saying "it's the status quo".

Exactly - seemingly assuming that their darling preferred party would no longer be in power, but ignoring that in a post-PR world the big parties may not even exist, and the free-market libertarians can actually have a party that represents their views in full instead of the compromise of the Tory party which has been far from the forefront when it comes to individuals rights, and the traditionalist 'stop the world I want to get off' can have their own party etc etc.

The thing is, your view can be heard more clearly in a PR system than any other, because it's much more likely you can vote for a party which actually reflects your views rather than choosing one of 3 in a big compromise. The fact that one may find themselves in a tiny, ignored minority on the other hand, is a problem which goes beyond the electoral system

 

[Slam62]

There's also the fact that our tax system isn't riddled with fraud and corruption like Greece's, which is one reason why they're in the mess they are.

I think you'll find that tax avoidance is about 10% of GDP, could be wrong though.

So I'll accept corection with a smiley face.

 

[gambitt]

To everyone who is supporting PR - would you be happy with the BNP holding 12 seats? What about the Green party with 6?

 

[Naffa]

To everyone who is supporting PR - would you be happy with the BNP holding 12 seats? What about the Green party with 6?

I'd like a system similar to Germany. A proportional system, but a percentage threshold that must be passed, to help keep out the extremists.

 

[scorza]

Indeed, i want another GE right now TBH, it will a much more traditional red Vs blue race with LD being pushed out because people will not be happy about going through it all again. meghatronic's OR is very unlikely

Keep calling an election until you get the result you want? What a wonderful vision of democracy.

We the people have given the party leaders this parliament, it's up to them to work with what we've given them, not spit their dummies out because they might have to work with some ghastly liberals. Cool heads are what's needed here, fortunately Clegg and Cameron appear to working on this basis.

 

[Slam62]

I wasn't comparing our economies, I was comparing our levels of debt. The difference is that they have an economy that can support it and we don't. That's why the deficit needs reducing and that's why all three parties are planning to do so.

Comparing our economy to Greece's though is a bit like a rich man who's got flu barging infront of a poor deaf child who's just had their face blown off in the emergency room.

Japan is a basket case anyway due to changing demographics. Japan also has the significant advantage of a massive manufacturing base.

Our overall debt, private and public has recently accelerated to the same level as Japan.

 

[rypt]

Exactly - seemingly assuming that their darling preferred party would no longer be in power, but ignoring that in a post-PR world the big parties may not even exist, and the free-market libertarians can actually have a party that represents their views in full instead of the compromise of the Tory party which has been far from the forefront when it comes to individuals rights, and the traditionalist 'stop the world I want to get off' can have their own party etc etc.

The thing is, your view can be heard more clearly in a PR system than any other, because it's much more likely you can vote for a party which actually reflects your views rather than choosing one of 3 in a big compromise. The fact that one may find themselves in a tiny, ignored minority on the other hand, is a problem which goes beyond the electoral system

No, with PR we would find ourselves with 15 odd mil of people voting for what are essentially 2 left and semi-left parties and only 11mil voting right (of the major parties).

It will mean we will constantly have a socialist/left leaning government, which I do NOT want.

PR would have worked before, unfortunately we now have the benefits left voting scum in huge numbers, making the system crap for the rest of us.

 

[scorza]

To everyone who is supporting PR - would you be happy with the BNP holding 12 seats? What about the Green party with 6?

2 million people voted BNP at this election, why shouldn't they have some representation. In fact it seems quite bizarre that they got twice as many votes as the Greens, yet there is a Green Party MP.

 

[gambitt]

I'd like a system similar to Germany. A proportional system, but a percentage threshold that must be passed, to help keep out the extremists.

Germany currently has a coalition though.

When you say extremists, the BNP are the 5th biggest party in terms of votes so if you make them the cut off point then say goodbye to the SNP, Plaid Cymru, Greens etc. So the only ones who will hold seats are the big 3 + UKIP (based on the 2010 results).

 

[dangerstat]

Keep calling an election until you get the result you want? What a wonderful vision of democracy.

We the people have given the party leaders this parliament, it's up to them to work with what we've given them, not spit their dummies out because they might have to work with some ghastly liberals. Cool heads are what's needed here, fortunately Clegg and Cameron appear to working on this basis.

Lol we haven't given anyone the power to do anything, and that is the problem. When "new" Labour got to power, it was clear they where wanted. The truth is the public neither want the Conservative or Labour. We need to vote again, simples.

 

[Xordium]

To everyone who is supporting PR - would you be happy with the BNP holding 12 seats? What about the Green party with 6?

Yes because whilst you might not like their views (I certainly do not like the BNP's at all) there are people who are voting for them and the nature of democracy is that people should be heard and fairly represented. You can not just silence a proportion of the population just because they do not have views that match your own. Surely such discrimination is why people do not like the BNP very much

 

[Slam62]

No, with PR we would find ourselves with 15 odd mil of people voting for what are essentially 2 left and semi-left parties and only 11mil voting right (of the major parties).

It will mean we will constantly have a socialist/left leaning government, which I do NOT want.

PR would have worked before, unfortunately we now have the benefits left voting scum in huge numbers, making the system crap for the rest of us.

oh so the will of most people is met, but because it's not the same as your's it's no good ---- yeah right.

you do seem a bit of a nutter though so you probably don't matter that much

 

[Captain_Slick]

I think you'll find that tax avoidance is about 10% of GDP, could be wrong though.

So I'll accept corection with a smiley face.

I haven't seen any data suggesting such a large figure, care to provide a source?

 

[Rich_L]

No, with PR we would find ourselves with 15 odd mil of people voting for what are essentially 2 left and semi-left parties and only 11mil voting right (of the major parties).

It will mean we will constantly have a socialist/left leaning government, which I do NOT want.

PR would have worked before, unfortunately we now have the benefits left voting scum in huge numbers, making the system crap for the rest of us.

Only if the traditional parties stay intact and the voting patterns stay the same, neither of which is guaranteed whatsoever.

And do you realise how pathetic and self-interested it sounds when you say that the reason you oppose a truly representative government is because it might give a result you dislike.

 

[gambitt]

Yes because whilst you might not like their views (I certainly do not like the BNP's at all) there are people who are voting for them and the nature of democracy is that people should be heard and fairly represented. You can not just silence a proportion of the population just because they do not have views that match your own. Surely such discrimination is why people do not like the BNP very much

I agree with you. I was just asking the question to the pro-PR people since they've obviously already considered this.