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No, I understood that. I think you're right as well, about the difficulty of it.
Saving the economy and implementing electoral reform aren't mutually exclusive, but you know that don't you
Poll: *** 2010 General Election Result & Discussion ***
- Thread starter Cosimo
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No, I understood that. I think you're right as well, about the difficulty of it.
Saving the economy and implementing electoral reform aren't mutually exclusive, but you know that don't you
PR would mitigate the impact quite a bit, although exactly how much depends on the system and constituency layout used.
Not necessarily, but on a broad look, inner cities are far more likely to be Labour than other areas, and suburbs and rural areas are far more likely to be conservative or lib dem.
The reason the constituncy results don't match the popular vote is due to unequal sizes, for example:
hypothetical Safe Labour seat
Population: 40,000
Labour vote: 20,000 (50%)
Tory vote: 10,000 (25%)
LD vote: 10,000 (25%)
Returns Labour MP.
Hypothetical rural seat.
Population: 80,000
Tory vote: 40,000 (50%)
Labour vote: 20,000 (25%)
LD vote: 20,000 (25%)
Returns Conservative MP
Vote totals
Population: 120,000
Labour vote: 40,000 (33%)
Tory vote: 50,000 (42%)
LD vote: 30,000 (25%)
MPs
1 Labour
1 Conservative
0 LD.
Now multiply that across multiple constituencies.
This is what is happening and why the Tories need such a massive swing to get power, and Labour do not. (It's not a new problem, the same thing has been happening for a long time, Labour did worse this year than the tories did in 1997, but reverse the results from the election and the same thing happens), and also partly why the lib dems get shafted.
Except the results clearly show it isn't.
I could tolerate AV+, although as recommended by the Jenkins report it isn't as proportional as STV or normal MMP.
My support for PR does depend on other things being put in place though, especially rules about honoring the will of the people with who will be PM in a PR setup.
Associate
I've just started to think about how the popular press will react if we're actually allowed a vote on PR - I can just imagine Murdoch's reaction and how he'll portray it in his papers as the end of democracy, the British way of life and, quite likely, the prelude to armageddon.
Soldato
Absolutely, but, my priority isn't pacifying people - that's a babysitters job. The economy is failing.Saving the economy and implementing electoral reform aren't mutually exclusive, but you know that don't you
Tory minority government for a year or two, including a look at all the electoral reform options and a nation wide poll/education/polll and referendum. Make it so.
Not untrue. Not true, but not untrue.
It will break up the parties and people will lose their voice as one, community etc.
Soldato
Twitter #torylibdempolicies quite funny!
"Gay people to be allowed to have a bed but not breakfast."
"No income tax on the first 10,000 quid you earn, or the last £10 million."
"Join the Euro-but UK Euro notes to have the words "France is gay" written on them "
"Gay people to be allowed to have a bed but not breakfast."
"No income tax on the first 10,000 quid you earn, or the last £10 million."
"Join the Euro-but UK Euro notes to have the words "France is gay" written on them "
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Fair enough, but just don't be too quick to want to get on with things that you're prepared to accept a coalition that isn't right.
I personally don't accept that implementing electoral reform is akin to pacification - it's incredibly important to me that the will of the people is accurately reflected in the executive.
At the moment however, I agree that a resolution must be reached between the parties, a Government implemented and progression made in dealing with important issues. I don't want to see electoral reform put on the back burner for longer than absolutely necessary however.
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Soldato
That is why I think it should be a key issue, just definiely not the top one or two. Every day this goes on is damaging the country.
The problem with a referendum is:
I rang my mum and asked her (she's got life smarts
) if she'd like 'proportional representation'. She said "yes, it's fairer". I asked why, and she said as it's "proportional"... that was all she could tell me, she couldn't tell me anything about it/pros/cons. The name alone gives it inherant biases. If you and I (and I could do with a trip) polled 10000s of people - 99% of them would be able to tell us pros/cons. They want what they're told to want and the left press and LD are shouting about it. I can't remember the last time PR was such an issue - certainly not in my lifetime. A straight forward yes or no question - only really what you can have on a referndum - is borderline dangerous. Just as dangerous as a leave EU vs. stay in EU. Such a large topic reduced to a binary question.
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Soldato
Which is nothing like Greece's situation.
Yet. When we first witnesses the signs of the "collapse" we thought it was impossible and yet here we are, how can American subprime mortgages affect us right?. The Greek situation will spread, and we're not far behind. If Spain gets hit, so will we, and if you think Cameron and Clegg will stop it you're sadly mistaken. The market being volatile now is a sign that we are ******. We need a stable (if not pretty leader). Simples
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God I'm bored. Just shows how skewed the system can be though. It's not entirely accurate.
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It's not entirely certain that we ****** though. The Greek situation can be stopped from spreading.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/stephanieflanders/2010/04/safe_haven_for_now.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/stephanieflanders/2010/02/greek_britain.html
And quite an interesting article here: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/ju...ow-self-delusions-prevent-recognition-reality
Soldato
Man of Honour
I'm quite interseted in that item & have just asked the seller a question.
Just down the road for me. Wonder if I can view before buying?
Soldato
/crying
I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up but reform is also needed re the House of Lords and Commons, right now the Lords have almost no 'power' what so ever, they can only delay bills not veto. The Queen can technically refuse to sign but that would bring the Royal family into dangerous territory. This means that any government with a large majority can in theory and practice push through anything they want (even if it goes against the wishes of the population) there is no balance like there was. The next step I think is an elected House of Lords with powers of veto etc (progressively lost since the the early 20th century).