Justice done?

Man of Honour
Joined
29 Mar 2003
Posts
56,791
Location
Stoke on Trent
Seems like a perfectly reasonable sentence to me, given their ages.

A few years in secure care away from the influences that lead to them acting like that, at such a critical point in their lives has every chance of making them properly productive members of society. any longer would ruin those chances, and cost society in the long run.

You've never worked in a Juvenile Prison - I have.
There's a stronger chance they will come out worse.
Should have been hung instead - scum.

Well let's wait until all the facts in before we pass judgment on these lads. Doesn't look like they meant to kill him, they were just having a laugh. Boys will be boys. I'm sure we've all done silly stuff like that when we were kids. Is it really fair to ruin two boys lifes because of a freak accident from this old man having dodgy health?

They obviously didn't mean to kill him but did they need to hit him so hard?
And no, I have definitely never hit an old man to the ground when I was a kid.
 
Last edited:
Associate
Joined
25 Jun 2006
Posts
1,359
Location
Somewhere East of Eden
.... they were just having a laugh. Boys will be boys. I'm sure we've all done silly stuff like that when we were kids.

You can count me out of that one.

I was brought up NOT DRAGGED UP and was taught to have respect for my fellow human beings. There are certainly many ways of having a laugh that don't include degrading a fellow human being.

It horrifies me for you to consider that I could have acted like that.

I haven't read to the end of the thread and NO doubt others on this forum will have similar views as mine.
 
Associate
Joined
25 Jun 2006
Posts
1,359
Location
Somewhere East of Eden
I believe punishment should take priority over rehabilitation.

Deviating slightly, a few years ago I went to Bergen Belsen concentration camp. Horrifying of course. In the afternoon a video was being shown by the German employees. The video had been edited in such a way that it only showed people who had been in the camp as detainees and survived. Most of those interviewed had emigrated to Australia and had set up businesses and became prosperous. The whole thing I got from it was that the Germans had manipulated the video in such a way as to make it seem that the Aussies were saying “The best thing that ever happened to me was being put in that concentration camp, without Belsen, I wouldn’t be where I am today”.

If we only try to rehabilitate those attackers, surely they would be able to use a similar excuse along the lines of: “The best thing I ever did was slap that old aged pensioner around the head and kill him, without that I wouldn’t be where I am today”.

Hang the pair of them!
 
Associate
Joined
25 Jun 2006
Posts
1,359
Location
Somewhere East of Eden
Then you'll never make a dent in crime.

I remember being told by a friend once of a TV programme he had seen where people were interviewed from the Isle of Mann who had been Birched in the 1950/1960s.

As I said I didn't see the programme but relating what my friend said something like 97% of those Birched were only Birched once, I don't believe any of them were Birched thrice. Whereas a similar number of people who had committed similar types of crimes in England and had either been fined or given a custodial sentence went on to commit a greater percentage of crimes and many of them committed "a lot more" than three crimes.

Apparently some of those Birched actually said “That was the best thing that ever happened to me”.

I’d go along with that, and in that instance surely the Birch must have made a "dent" in crime (if NOT in the villan's back).
 
Man of Honour
Joined
17 Oct 2002
Posts
50,384
Location
Plymouth
I remember being told by a friend once of a TV programme he had seen where people were interviewed from the Isle of Mann who had been Birched in the 1950/1960s.

As I said I didn't see the programme but relating what my friend said something like 97% of those Birched were only Birched once, I don't believe any of them were Birched thrice. Whereas a similar number of people who had committed similar types of crimes in England and had either been fined or given a custodial sentence went on to commit a greater percentage of crimes and many of them committed "a lot more" than three crimes.

Apparently some of those Birched actually said “That was the best thing that ever happened to me”.

I’d go along with that, and in that instance surely the Birch must have made a "dent" in crime (if NOT in the villan's back).

I find your 3rd hand anecdotal evidence compelling.... Certainly far more compelling than all the numerous studies on criminality and behaviour.
 
Man of Honour
OP
Joined
17 Aug 2007
Posts
28,933
I remember being told by a friend once of a TV programme he had seen where people were interviewed from the Isle of Mann who had been Birched in the 1950/1960s.

When I was at school we used to have an English teacher who had a thick wooden ruler which he nicknamed Albion, if you misbehaved he gave you a whack across the knuckles with it. Hurt like hell by all accounts, occassionally drew blood. Not really in the same league as birching though,
 
Soldato
Joined
22 Mar 2008
Posts
11,648
Location
London
Manslaughter is not that. Murder is, arguably.

Why were they charged with Manslaughter exactly rather than Murder, since this is what it looked like to me

Manslaughter is when your act leads to a death, but that was not the intention.
In this case it seemed it was the intention
 
Soldato
Joined
30 Sep 2006
Posts
5,269
Location
Midlands, UK
When I was at school we used to have an English teacher who had a thick wooden ruler which he nicknamed Albion, if you misbehaved he gave you a whack across the knuckles with it. Hurt like hell by all accounts, occassionally drew blood. Not really in the same league as birching though,
yeah, but the same prinicple i guess. When i was a lad i was a mischevious little sprite i can tell you. The local bobbies would give us a good smack round the head, and it DID deter us. Shame its not like that any more.

We all know this country is in the ******.
 
Soldato
Joined
30 Sep 2006
Posts
5,269
Location
Midlands, UK
Why were they charged with Manslaughter exactly rather than Murder, since this is what it looked like to me

Manslaughter is when your act leads to a death, but that was not the intention.
In this case it seemed it was the intention

I don't beleive their intention was to kill, looking at the video, hit and run.
However, 4 years is half of what they should get.........pair of scumbag flankers!
 
Soldato
Joined
22 Mar 2008
Posts
11,648
Location
London
I don't beleive their intention was to kill, looking at the video, hit and run.
However, 4 years is half of what they should get.........pair of scumbag flankers!

They hit hard enough to cause the person to die, that is not a hit and run.

Do you think locking them away with people of a similar ilk will help?
I would prefer hanging personally, that would help
 
Associate
Joined
22 Jul 2010
Posts
7
The British Justice system is a complete joke! They say it will be 2 years, but if those two show some good behaviour they will be out earlier than expected.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
4,378
People come and have a look and then walk away. It only looks like one person does anything to help :(.


They didn't know he was seriously injured and it looks like someone from the mosque came out, brought his granddaughter inside and then you see him calling the police on his mobile. What are an extra bunch of strangers going to do? The situation was already being handled.
 
Back
Top Bottom