Graduates struggling to find jobs

[mOdO]

I've just graduated and have landed a full time coaching job this sept. Many of my friends who also graduated are jobless/weekend jobs.

I don't see why loads of people on here knock off media so much, I do a bit of freelancing in media and there are many high earners in the office.

 

[Indy500]

Effectiveness in this order:

Nepotism -> experience -> qualifications

About 75-80% of the time, the first one will be what gets you a job.

 

[wozza2k]

I don't see why loads of people on here knock off media so much, I do a bit of freelancing in media and there are many high earners in the office.

Depends on what Media course you do and where. Doing a Media course from a low ranking uni such as ARU isn't going to help you.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Effectiveness in this order:

Nepotism -> experience -> qualifications

About 75-80% of the time, the first one will be what gets you a job.

Of the 5 jobs I've had, only one has been through connections, and that was a friend, not a relative.

So, 20%.

 

[Indy500]

Of the 5 jobs I've had, only one has been through connections, and that was a friend, not a relative.

So, 20%.

My own ratio is about 60%...I would have quoted a stat but this kind of thing doesn't really have records kept for obvious reasons.

Nepotism is part of human nature unfortunately, it gets worse the higher up you go in an organisation, especially a large one. Most obviously apparent in politics.

Edit: perhaps networking is a better term if we're going to talk about appointments based on both merit and contacts.

 

[Vonhelmet]

My own ratio is about 60%...I would have quoted a stat but this kind of thing doesn't really have records kept for obvious reasons.

Nepotism is part of human nature unfortunately, it gets worse the higher up you go in an organisation, especially a large one. Most obviously apparent in politics.

Edit: perhaps networking is a better term if we're going to talk about appointments based on both merit and contacts.

Ah, OK, networking I'll grant you. That can be hugely important.

 

[Mr-White]

A degree has become like a oyster card. Everyone has one, it has become devalued.

This is true but has made people without a degree even worse off as having a degree seems to be considered the norm. You need a masters these days to get a head.

MW

 

[Chris1712]

Off-topic: Chris1712, what are you studying at UWE? That's where I'm going in September.


Spot on about computing/IT though. They're more support monkey wheras comp sci/software eng are the ones if you want to be a developer (and those two have common first years IIRC).

I always find it funny how many people refer to UWE as "Bristol", but drop the "polytechnic" bit .

I currently study Computing for Real Time Systems, aka Computer Engineering aka Computer Systems Integration. They keep changing the name, but its basically CompSci/ElecEng mushed together, a more technical in depth CompSci. I thoroughly recommend it and the reputation of the course seems to outstrip the stigma attached to the university, at least somewhat.

I have no shame or discontent toward the fact I study at UWE, I wasn't planning on going to uni until they gave me an offer out of the blue, I actually had an apprenticeship setup at Volvo! I'm of the opinion personally that people should what they want to do, and as long as they're doing ~something to improve themselves then fair play. If your not academic enough to get into a good uni, so be it but make sure you spend your money wisely and do a real course. Ofcourse combining a crap uni with a crap course isn't a great idea, but I don't know anyone who did that and actually expected much from it other than 25k of debt and 4 years of fun! Equally I still think that not going to uni is a fine option, just don't get stuck at home doing nothing.

I do think the entire Uni system needs a huge shake-up though, it should be for the academically elite, the top 30% or so, not 50. Personally I don't think I'm good enough for University education, I'm just not suited to it. I'm crap at exams and coursework, but I'm good in real life and there are a LOT of people in the same boat nowadays being shoehorned into degrees because there's little other choice!
Unfortunately its been too long now for it to change back I think, but something needs to be done IMO.


Westyfield if you've any questions about UWE/Bristol in general feel free to add me on msn or email me.

 

[Chris1712]

I currently study Computing for Real Time Systems, aka Computer Engineering aka Computer Systems Integration. They keep changing the name, but its basically CompSci/ElecEng mushed together, a more technical in depth CompSci. I thoroughly recommend it and the reputation of the course seems to outstrip the stigma attached to the university, at least somewhat.

I have no shame or discontent toward the fact I study at UWE, I wasn't planning on going to uni until they gave me an offer out of the blue, I actually had an apprenticeship setup at Volvo! I'm of the opinion personally that people should what they want to do, and as long as they're doing ~something to improve themselves then fair play. If your not academic enough to get into a good uni, so be it but make sure you spend your money wisely and do a real course. Ofcourse combining a crap uni with a crap course isn't a great idea, but I don't know anyone who did that and actually expected much from it other than 25k of debt and 4 years of fun! Equally I still think that not going to uni is a fine option, just don't get stuck at home doing nothing.

I do think the entire Uni system needs a huge shake-up though, it should be for the academically elite, the top 30% or so, not 50+. Personally I don't think I'm good enough for University education, I'm just not suited to it. I'm crap at exams and coursework, but I'm good in real life and there are a LOT of people in the same boat nowadays being shoehorned into degrees because there's little other choice!
Unfortunately its been too long now for it to change back I think, but something needs to be done IMO.


Westyfield if you've any questions about UWE/Bristol in general feel free to add me on msn or email me.

 

[Indy500]

Ah, OK, networking I'll grant you. That can be hugely important.

The campus I study at is in a town where 50% of the populace hold degrees. Which is why I emphasise my experience first off.

 

[Pug]

What does your job entail? Do you audit?

I setup procurement contracts and implementation of said contracts for suppliers in a range of regional and national consortia - admittedly heavily biased towards the sciences, but i get to work with people across all departments in some areas.

Bristol is one of the top Unis for chemistry.

In fact it is number 10 Uni overall

As i say, a lot of the criteria for those ratings are fudgey at best. When i visited Bristol last (admittedly 18months or so ago) the chemistry department struggling very hard financially, and close to closing a lot of it down. That doesnt sound like a good uni driving research forward, and generating income from the grants associated from that? Sure it might get cash in from undergrads, but a Unis merit is in its PG research imo, and it was struggling compared to others i have seen. All imo, of course

So you consider only 5/6 of the entire countries universities worthwhile? I'm sorry but that's unbelievably elitist, can you really say a degree from Bristol is considerably worse then Manchester!?

Chris - your other post just above this one sums up my opinion on HE perfectly. And my comments were not meant to be elitist at all, and i didnt say the others weren't worthwhile. If you read my post i said those are the TOP NOTCH unis, then theres about 15 institutes i'd say were good, and then god knows how many beyond that i'd say were of dubious value (depending on your area of interest of course). Read the posts back again!

Also pegging comp sci/computing and IT into the same bracket, what are you on about!? I agree mostly with regards to computing/IT, they are absolute noddy courses regardless of the institution and most probably support monkey qualifications an experience will be of more use.

I put the caveat in that i was possibly being ignorat, and i was - so thanks for putting me straight! However, my pont stands about the alternatives to MCSE, CCNA etc they'd be of more merit/value, surely?

fwiw, i graduated from Leicester Uni in chemistry with a 2.1 after a 4 year placement year (when leicester was in the top 7 for what it mattered) with the year at GSK, and then got a job easily thanks to my industrial placement. From there i worked in a lab, then went back to academia 18months later to do a PhD in Analytical Biochemistry - so i am talking with some experience.

 

[Chris1712]

Its not elitist at all, and i didnt say the others weren't worthwhile. If you read my post i said those are the TOP NOTCH unis, then theres about 15 institutes i'd say were good, and then god knows how many beyond that i'd say were of dubious value (depending on your area of interest of course). Read the posts back again!



I put the caveat in that i was possibly being ignorat, and i was - so thanks for putting me straight! However, my pont stands about the alternatives to MCSE, CCNA etc they'd be of more merit/value, surely?

fwiw, i graduated from Leicester Uni in chemistry with a 2.1 after a 4 year placement year (when leicester was in the top 7 for what it mattered) with the year at GSK, and then got a job easily thanks to my industrial placement. From there i worked in a lab, then went back to academia 18months later to do a PhD in Analytical Biochemistry - so i am talking with some experience.

Fair enough Pug, I just get easily riled by 17 year olds on the internet who've been told by their college career advisers they might get into oxbridge etc. and start spouting how they're the only worthwhile options. Obviously you are in fact not one .

As for external qualifications MCSE/CCNA etc. your probably right in regards to Computing/IT courses. But these are wildly different from CompSci/CompEng style courses, I very much doubt I'll ever be in a role/career path where such qualifications are even vaguely related.

FWIW - I'm doing Computer Engineering at UWE and have so far had no problems getting internship offers and promising leads from big name players in my industry. I'm currently interning at one of the biggest semiconductor names, and I'm not the only UWE student here/in their history.
Perhaps if I extend beyond my industry and start looking at graduate schemes in more generic big names like KPMG/PWC/GSK I might start to get unstuck. Saying that I know a graduate from last year working at Accenture and a couple at GCHQ.

 

[Pug]

no, i think in your case you'll have some experience with the internship, and you'll do fine. Also, "classical" unis dont have the same strength in some of the niche areas that the old polys do - and certainly in things like material science i.e. new subjects, i'm seeing the old "polys" getting more funding than the red bricks - which imo excel in physical sciences, maths, medicine and law. I also wont push my kids down the uni route - unless they want it - as much can be achieved with hard work and persistance in non-acedemic circles.

 

[Mul]

I completely agree that having prior work experience makes a difference when it comes to graduate applications. Sadly I was too late to the internship party and struggled to secure one.

I have already hit the 2011 Graduate Applications at IB & Consultancy firms as they open to try and get ahead of the game. From last years experiences, it was a struggle to juggle multiple internship applications alongside course work.

 

[Indy500]

I completely agree that having prior work experience makes a difference when it comes to graduate applications. Sadly I was too late to the internship party and struggled to secure one.

I thought the whole point of graduate schemes is the training involved? Have they shifted to "you must have X years experience"? If so, it looks like I may be at a decisive advantage...

 

[DAnDan]

The whole lack of experience thing was a key point in me choosing what course/uni to choose. Currently doing an MChem in chemistry with a 1 year placement stuck in, hopefully the experience from that year will be a bonus when it comes to getting a job at the end of it all (chance are I'll hope to stay on and do a PhD though).

 

[dowie]

Many unis offer 'comp sci' but they're nothing more than computing courses. I have a few friends that graduated from Warwick/Bristol (not very prestigous) with at least 2.1 at comp sci and are still struggling to find a job.

LOL - aside from Oxford/Cambridge/London Colleges can you name me places you consider to be more prestigious than Warwick and Bristol?

 

[semi-pro waster]

I thought the whole point of graduate schemes is the training involved? Have they shifted to "you must have X years experience"? If so, it looks like I may be at a decisive advantage...

It'll depend on the graduate scheme but if you're up against someone who has already spent some time with the company then they'll probably have a slightly easier time proving that they deserve a place/will do well there. For a lot of graduate schemes the training will be the most important part but if you can demonstrate relevant experience, particularly within the company, then you're at an advantage.

 

[Glaucus]

As i say, a lot of the criteria for those ratings are fudgey at best. When i visited Bristol last (admittedly 18months or so ago) the chemistry department struggling very hard financially, and close to closing a lot of it down.

This is not how companys view it. The top unis are top unis in regards to employers and the tables.

As for Warwick, it is even higher than Bristol. Being in the top couple for maths, again highly respected by top companies.

 

[Red Porsche]

I setup procurement contracts and implementation of said contracts for suppliers in a range of regional and national consortia - admittedly heavily biased towards the sciences, but i get to work with people across all departments in some areas.

What do you think of the Chemistry department at Manchester? I'm hopefully going there results depending. Im doing the Mchem with a year in industry, thats key to me as it is a masters and has a years paid placement.