If only you were there and in charge. It would have been so different.
Madness in the fast lane
- Thread starter Mr Joshua
- Start date
If only you were there and in charge. It would have been so different.
Soldato
just watching in now about 20 minutes in and i am gobsmacked
Caporegime
I'm not a professional law enforcer.
Why do people like you always believe that in order to be able to validly criticise someone or something, you have to have been able to do better?
At least try and develop your argument beyond tired old 'you couldn't do any better'.
It's about as useful as me saying I bet you couldn't go ten rounds with Riddick Bowe.
It makes no difference, they still wouldn't be able to safely restrain her for fear of further aggravating any injuries.
After being hit by a car twice, I really wouldn't be expecting anyone to try a third time. Police officers have a duty of care, they have to look after an injured party, not wrestle with them.
You're suggesting they do things, but nowhere are you suggesting how they might do them. By the time the girls were getting combative again, they were still the only police officers on the scene.
You've got the benefit of hindsight, something nobody at the incident had. There's no way anyone - including yourself - would really have foreseen what happened.
Soldato
Yes there were they were both clean as a whistle it's a very interesting program.
Soldato
I haven't seen anything as disturbing as this for a long time.
The thought that Sabina will be out on the street (whether she is 'monitored' or not) next year is actually worrying, it is occurrences like this and the obvious holes in certain areas of the law that can and quite frankly should make people scared to walk down the street.
I think that it is wrong Sabina was released after being charged, even if she was interviewed and assessed by experts I cannot see how this wasn't an exceptional case where at least someone involved should have made a case for her not being released until further tests or a longer period of examination had been carried out.
Lastly, why was there no information about the other sister? I don't even recall the narrator saying something like 'the family / sister declined to comment on the events'? As the expert said in the video, the sisters are twins and genetically identical, surely the sister who is now in Sweden would act as a frame of reference to predict if Sabina will relapse?
The thought that Sabina will be out on the street (whether she is 'monitored' or not) next year is actually worrying, it is occurrences like this and the obvious holes in certain areas of the law that can and quite frankly should make people scared to walk down the street.
I think that it is wrong Sabina was released after being charged, even if she was interviewed and assessed by experts I cannot see how this wasn't an exceptional case where at least someone involved should have made a case for her not being released until further tests or a longer period of examination had been carried out.
Lastly, why was there no information about the other sister? I don't even recall the narrator saying something like 'the family / sister declined to comment on the events'? As the expert said in the video, the sisters are twins and genetically identical, surely the sister who is now in Sweden would act as a frame of reference to predict if Sabina will relapse?
Soldato
No the other sister is now in america and don't want to talk about what happened altho she is still in contact with her sister in prison over here.(they should tap the phone calls 
)
)
Caporegime
So the fear of aggravating her injuries supercedes the fear of her running under another truck? They should be equally if not more worried about the safety of the public.
They also have a duty of care to the innocent members of the public that have not already put people's lives in danger...? If someone came into your house and attacked your family twice, the third time you'd make damn sure they couldn't get up, then you can start worrying about how grave their injuries are.
Yes I have, I already mentioned spray and a batton
. They should have sprayed her in the face then applied handcuffs.When the officers were casually chatting to them at the side of the road, I said to my wife, 'Why aren't they restraining her properly?'. That wasn't hindsight, was it, as I said it before they ran away. After the second time when they're lying on the floor it starts to get ridiculous that they didn't consider the potential that she would do a runner. These are traffic cops that have seen far worse injuries so they shouldn't be shocked by a broken leg.
Even if it wasn't obvious as such that she would try for the third time having been hit pretty well by a car, it's reasonably forseeable, at least it was to me.
Man of Honour
I don't remember this on the news at the time but i saw this the other night in disbelief. I thought it was some kind of wind up. Crazy story, crazy people.
Soldato
Hmmm, let me see..
They were spotted walking along the central reservation, officers of the highways agency were sent to stop them, the highways agency if I recall, have absolutely no powers to detain. On approaching, the sisters try to flee across the carriageway, and one of them is caught a glacing blow by a moving vehicle, at the side of the road, they both appear relatively calm. There was absolutely no reason to go out 'guns blazing' so to speak, to two women that look disoriented but passive.
It was only after the police arrived, and while the 'witness' was explaining what had happened so far, that Ursula decided to flee into the path of the truck, which shattered her legs as the truck rolled over her, and Sabina ran into the path of the golf.
There was no possible way that the police could have prevented that incident from occurring, unless you are an advocate of totalitarian policing, at which point, every person coming into contact with a police officer, will be arrested and detained until such a point as the officer can assertain that they are safe to be released.
After the initial impacts, you have an incident to deal with, and a minimal number of people to deal with it, two people, both involved in serious RTA's, the first thought is the duty of care, the preservation of life. Did those officers have ANY idea of what the injuries were? Beyond Ursula's compound fractures (obvious by the bones sticking out of her legs), there were no immediately visible injuries, that said, both were in a delerious/semi-conscious state.
At this time, while awaiting the arrival of paramedics, the duty of the police officers, was to close the entire carriageway, and make sure that the twins were kept in a stable condition, which they attempted to do.
Ursula, initially was the most conscious, as you can hear in the tapes, she was shouting quite loudly that 'they will take your organs'. Sabrina at this time, was semi conscious, and being attended to, only by one female officer, it was not expected, that somebody, that had just been hit by a car doing almost 70mph, would be able to do much of anything, and conventional wisdom dictates that when you go down, you stay down.
The screaming by her sister, that 'they will take your organs', very likely triggered an adrenaline fueled fight and flight response in sabina. There is not a police officer in the country, that would have expected her to have resisted the way she did, considering the impact she had just sustained, hence the comments about how they must be on something, that you hear in the tape. There is no other obvious explanation.
Robbie G, you are looking at this with the benefit of knowing exactly what happened next. That means that in this instance, you have a massive advantage over the officers at the scene. And if you think for one moment, that you would have reacted any differently to the officers at the scene, I suggest that you get off your keyboard warriors ass and prove that you are some sort of supercop.
As to why Sabina was released after being charged with assaulting a police officer, and trespass on the motorway. It is stated in the documentary, she was still semi-sedated when she received her first psychological evaluation, she appeared to be perfectly normal. And most importantly, the psychologist was not shown the footage of what happened. His assessment was made solely on what he could establish in a very short interview with her.
The system was at fault, there is no doubt about it, even the judge at the murder trial said so, and he handed her the punishment that he was mandated to give her, even though he was in favour of an 'until she is no longer a risk to the public' sentance, the same given to people like peter sutcliffe.
Ultimately, the officers on the scene, did nothing wrong, there was no way to predict the way events unfolded. And if you think you could have stopped it.. Can I have your lottery numbers, as I am sure you must win every week?
They were spotted walking along the central reservation, officers of the highways agency were sent to stop them, the highways agency if I recall, have absolutely no powers to detain. On approaching, the sisters try to flee across the carriageway, and one of them is caught a glacing blow by a moving vehicle, at the side of the road, they both appear relatively calm. There was absolutely no reason to go out 'guns blazing' so to speak, to two women that look disoriented but passive.
It was only after the police arrived, and while the 'witness' was explaining what had happened so far, that Ursula decided to flee into the path of the truck, which shattered her legs as the truck rolled over her, and Sabina ran into the path of the golf.
There was no possible way that the police could have prevented that incident from occurring, unless you are an advocate of totalitarian policing, at which point, every person coming into contact with a police officer, will be arrested and detained until such a point as the officer can assertain that they are safe to be released.
After the initial impacts, you have an incident to deal with, and a minimal number of people to deal with it, two people, both involved in serious RTA's, the first thought is the duty of care, the preservation of life. Did those officers have ANY idea of what the injuries were? Beyond Ursula's compound fractures (obvious by the bones sticking out of her legs), there were no immediately visible injuries, that said, both were in a delerious/semi-conscious state.
At this time, while awaiting the arrival of paramedics, the duty of the police officers, was to close the entire carriageway, and make sure that the twins were kept in a stable condition, which they attempted to do.
Ursula, initially was the most conscious, as you can hear in the tapes, she was shouting quite loudly that 'they will take your organs'. Sabrina at this time, was semi conscious, and being attended to, only by one female officer, it was not expected, that somebody, that had just been hit by a car doing almost 70mph, would be able to do much of anything, and conventional wisdom dictates that when you go down, you stay down.
The screaming by her sister, that 'they will take your organs', very likely triggered an adrenaline fueled fight and flight response in sabina. There is not a police officer in the country, that would have expected her to have resisted the way she did, considering the impact she had just sustained, hence the comments about how they must be on something, that you hear in the tape. There is no other obvious explanation.
Robbie G, you are looking at this with the benefit of knowing exactly what happened next. That means that in this instance, you have a massive advantage over the officers at the scene. And if you think for one moment, that you would have reacted any differently to the officers at the scene, I suggest that you get off your keyboard warriors ass and prove that you are some sort of supercop.
As to why Sabina was released after being charged with assaulting a police officer, and trespass on the motorway. It is stated in the documentary, she was still semi-sedated when she received her first psychological evaluation, she appeared to be perfectly normal. And most importantly, the psychologist was not shown the footage of what happened. His assessment was made solely on what he could establish in a very short interview with her.
The system was at fault, there is no doubt about it, even the judge at the murder trial said so, and he handed her the punishment that he was mandated to give her, even though he was in favour of an 'until she is no longer a risk to the public' sentance, the same given to people like peter sutcliffe.
Ultimately, the officers on the scene, did nothing wrong, there was no way to predict the way events unfolded. And if you think you could have stopped it.. Can I have your lottery numbers, as I am sure you must win every week?
Caporegime
Ceryndrion
I've already addressed this stupid point about 'I'd like to see you do better'.
I AM NOT A TRAINED OFFICER OF THE LAW and therefore would not be expected to be able to operate with the skill expected of one.
I think you are confused...police were in attendance at the same time as the Highways Agency and before the second escape:
Here is the video for other people that need to watch it again:
I totally disagree, not much more than I can say on that.
They also owe a duty of care to the general public by preventing two raving lunatics from running under cars.
Expected? Perhaps not. Considered as a possibility? They damn well should have done. And them possibly being 'on something' just makes it all the more bemusing that restraining action was not taken.
No, I am not. When I watched the documentary, I had no degree of certainty over what would happen next, as I had not seen it before, as I already mentioned above...
Grow up.
Oh, well that's ok then!! Of course my point was that he should have been shown the footage.
Sorry, but I cannot read them on account of the tears rolling down my cheeks from your hilarious quips.
I've already addressed this stupid point about 'I'd like to see you do better'.
I AM NOT A TRAINED OFFICER OF THE LAW and therefore would not be expected to be able to operate with the skill expected of one.
I think you are confused...police were in attendance at the same time as the Highways Agency and before the second escape:
Here is the video for other people that need to watch it again:
I totally disagree, not much more than I can say on that.
They also owe a duty of care to the general public by preventing two raving lunatics from running under cars.
Expected? Perhaps not. Considered as a possibility? They damn well should have done. And them possibly being 'on something' just makes it all the more bemusing that restraining action was not taken.
No, I am not. When I watched the documentary, I had no degree of certainty over what would happen next, as I had not seen it before, as I already mentioned above...
Grow up.
Oh, well that's ok then!! Of course my point was that he should have been shown the footage.
Sorry, but I cannot read them on account of the tears rolling down my cheeks from your hilarious quips.
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Soldato
Watched the original motorway cops and decided to have a little look at what this was about. Couldn't stop watching! Absolutely crazy!
Permabanned
The UK justice system at its best here 5 years and a slap on the whist for killing someone
Soldato
- Joined
- 29 Jun 2004
- Posts
- 12,957
The UK justice system at its best here 5 years and a slap on the whist for killing someone
I don't condone what happened, however the sentence took into consideration that of diminished responsibility.
Soldato
Robbie G, I get the impression that this is really upsetting you, so I am going to point out yet another flaw in your carefully selected footage.
Watch the original video from Traffic Cops, and you will have noticed that the police were called in, by the highways agency, after the two girls had run across the carriageway. I do not disagree that they were there when they decided to run back into traffic, but you seem to think that the police were there from the beginning and watched it all, which they weren't, and did not. They arrived later, when the girls were at the side of the road, and thus needed to be brought up to speed by the HA officer that was present at the time.
however, it looks as though there is no convincing you of anything other than your blinkered opinion.. I know, I will propose that in future, all victims of RTA's of any sort, will be immediately shot, to prevent them from doing anything stupid and unexpected. Because that makes about as much sense as anything that you have said.
Watch the original video from Traffic Cops, and you will have noticed that the police were called in, by the highways agency, after the two girls had run across the carriageway. I do not disagree that they were there when they decided to run back into traffic, but you seem to think that the police were there from the beginning and watched it all, which they weren't, and did not. They arrived later, when the girls were at the side of the road, and thus needed to be brought up to speed by the HA officer that was present at the time.
however, it looks as though there is no convincing you of anything other than your blinkered opinion.. I know, I will propose that in future, all victims of RTA's of any sort, will be immediately shot, to prevent them from doing anything stupid and unexpected. Because that makes about as much sense as anything that you have said.