**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****

[Indie]

So are the tactics in the game rush with overwhelming numbers or do you play to unit abilities (melee front, support & arty at rear)? I only bought the game last month and still learning the game on campaign.

At a very low level it does tend to be a lot of rush and mass of X unit.

But once you figure out the counter for the rush and mass of one unit type (which is SOO easy), You'll reacha higher level of play. in which it is very much of what you describe. However, much much deeper

You'll eventually have to cope with harassing your enemy, building your base, building the correct units, being harassed, expanding (everything mico/macro) all at the same time! very mentally demanding but enjoyable game

 

[shaggyd]

With this release of ScII emphasising the Terran story, I find it a shame that there is no cover system or ability for the terran marines to mount buildings/vehicles and fire from them (like CNC3). For the zergs, you could have a combined ability where two units can be morphed into a single, more powerful unit. As for the Protoss, more shiny shiny glowy things.

 

[kar]

The reason why your getting speed upgrade for your zerglings so early is because it gives you the map control that you need early game so you can expand. (you'll see this in some replays.. Kar might be able to upload a few of me vs him if he still has them)

I keep all my replays I'll post a big wad of our games tonight

It's interesting what you said about the carapace upgrades, I _always_ rush +1 attack, and I noticed you don't really bother with attack upgrades, focussing on carapace, I think you have at least +2 in our games.

I need to look at how damage scales if I skip +1 attack and go for +1 armour/shields or something. Just to mix things up a bit

I think the thing about having lings at the ramp is really important. Speedlings really annoy me, because I know if I make a simple mistake (like not closing the gate at my ramp) I can almost instantly lose the game. That fear really is effective in buying the zergie time to get their expo up. If the Zerg has two bases and a good contain in effect, a Protoss on 1 base will almost always lose. 2 base protoss can _almost_ beat 4 base zerg, but the key for protoss is saturating 4 gas geysers. Something to remember when playing PvZ.

 

[Indie]

With this release of ScII emphasising the Terran story, I find it a shame that there is no cover system or ability for the terran marines to mount buildings/vehicles and fire from them (like CNC3). For the zergs, you could have a combined ability where two units can be morphed into a single, more powerful unit. As for the Protoss, more shiny shiny glowy things.

If they added a more complex cover mechanic/system then the game wouldn't appeal to the masses that it already does. Especially the Pro Gaming scene. Theres just no demand for them to change the old system. If it aint broke, dont fix it

I do like the zerg morph idea, i think its a nice mechanic, which they have experimented with already using the Zergling > Baneling morph.

Protoss, for me at least, seem to be the most balanced race at the moment. but i do agree, MOAR SPARKLES!

 

[Indie]

I keep all my replays I'll post a big wad of our games tonight

It's interesting what you said about the carapace upgrades, I _always_ rush +1 attack, and I noticed you don't really bother with attack upgrades, focussing on carapace, I think you have at least +2 in our games.

I need to look at how damage scales if I skip +1 attack and go for +1 armour/shields or something. Just to mix things up a bit

Yeah, the +1 carapace just nutralises your +1 for zealots really. thats the main reason, my Zergling meatwall would get decimated otherwise ^^
not sure if upgrading armour would benefit you much vs Zerg, not until later game at least. not sure, it deffo would be something to experiment with, and lets face it, no zerg likes a tough Zealot ^^

Ahh thats pretty cool, im rubbish with saving replays, i might start saving all of mine from now on, its good to look back.

And i finally have starcraft working again! *cheer*

 

[kar]

The area where attack upgrades really come in important is late game vs corruptors.

Upgraded stalkers are pretty effective killing corruptors and if there's templar feedback support...

 

[etom]

i need to start using feedback limiting my hts to storm and archaon morph only at the moment

 

[Indie]

The area where attack upgrades really come in important is late game vs corruptors.

Upgraded stalkers are pretty effective killing corruptors and if there's templar feedback support...

damn you feedback! damnnn yooou!

Yeah graded stalkers are reallly good against zergs late game air.

 

[Manlove is my forte]

not denying your playing lower league Terrans, but if you had a better build order, you'd have a stronger early-mid game and you'd end up playing much better Terrans in Plat/Diamond.

Even if their cheesing, with a more solid BO, you can prevent it quite easily. thats the whole point of it ^^

By better you mean "the current standard" I certainly never feel short of money.

I think with Zerg the most important skills to have is learning when to power drones, when to expand and when to build an army and when to attack

 

[Indie]

By better you mean "the current standard" I certainly never feel short of money.

I think with Zerg the most important skills to have is learning when to power drones, when to expand and when to build an army and when to attack

Better, Current Standing, makes no real difference. Their still better ^^
I've played some TvZ in Diamond, and realised its actually not as easy for Terran as one may think. The theory is easy. but in practise its very difficult.

Those are important qualities for all races really. except the drone drilling. Personally i avoid it, far too risky unless you know EXACTLY what your opponant is doing. I prefer to build them up slowly, that way i have a balance between army and economy

 

[Indie]

Out of interest... wasnt there going to be an SCII OcUK Tournament?
think EpicCarnage was going to sort one out? maybe im wrong! *shrugs*

 

[etom]

Out of interest... wasnt there going to be an SCII OcUK Tournament?
think EpicCarnage was going to sort one out? maybe im wrong! *shrugs*

that would be fun, what would it be like knock out or round robin, after this week can only play weekends

 

[Tummy]

It's safe to assume if I played online I'd get raped.

Any tips?

I'm still playing through the main game, which is fantastic so far.

 

[kar]

It's safe to assume if I played online I'd get raped.

Any tips?

I'm still playing through the main game, which is fantastic so far.

If you're starting out there's two big things to remember.

Starcraft is an economic game, keep building scvs, probes, drones all throughout the game. Like even if it seems you have too many, odds are you don't.

Build units and go attack. Other than being an economic game, Starcraft is a game of initiative. It is almost always better to be aggressive than to be passive. There are different ways to be aggressive, militarily, economically or technologically. When starting off, be militarily aggressive. It's the easiest and safest

So a) Build workers, b) build lots of attacking units and go attack.

Do both of these as quickly as you can and you will be better off than any other new player who doesn't.

 

[Tummy]

Thanks.

I've always been a turtle builder with games in this style before.

Being an econimic power house and slowly crawling forward in huge numbers.

Will try and be quicker

 

[kar]

Thanks.

I've always been a turtle builder with games in this style before.

Being an econimic power house and slowly crawling forward in huge numbers.

Will try and be quicker

There's nothing wrong with macroing up, but it's difficult. Probably (imo) the best player in the world, Idra, plays this way. He sacrifices early aggression in favour of economic aggression. He takes an early expansion and hangs on for dear life, until his economy roars to life and he can just spew like a bazillion units at his enemy.

But, and this was reinforced in recent tournaments, the player that is the aggressor usually dictates the rest of the game. If someone turtles, then they give up map control to their opponent who can then expand themselves _while_ pressuring their opponent and forcing them to waste money on units rather than workers and extra expansions.

The tight balance between aggression, macro (economy), and technology is one of the characteristic things about starcraft. At the moment that balance is slightly off (terrans can basically do all three simultaneously without suffering like the other two races).

But anyway, I mean, as a new player as terran build like 3 barracks and once you hit 50 supply of marines and marauders (the blue number top right corner) go attack your enemy. Odds are, at super beginner level, you will win.

 

[Decelo]

Thanks for the reply Alex and Indie, really helpful.
Just had another game it suddenly became apparently how hard it is for me to keep up to date with my larvae. So much going on I get distracted so easily, but hopefully should become easier with time..!

 

[Reed]

Upcoming patch: Situation Report: Patch 1.1 and Beyond - StarCraft II

Balance Changes

We have several balance changes in store. One general change we're making is that friendly units will no longer provide vision after being killed. Enemy units previously revealed will no longer be targetable. Now let's break down the additional balance changes we're implementing.



Maps

We're going to be adding destructible rocks to the Desert Oasis map to make natural expansions easier to protect. In addition, the center map watchtower area is being narrowed.

Protoss

We have two key changes in mind for the zealot: the build time is being increased from 33 to 38 seconds, and the warpgate cooldown is being increased from 23 to 28 seconds. Zealot rushes are currently too powerful at various skill levels, particularly those that rely on rapidly assaulting an enemy base from nearby "proxy" gateways. We feel the window players have to scout for and fend off this rush is too small. We also want to address the problem of protoss being able to dump minerals a bit too quickly with the combination of warpgates and Chrono Boost.

Terran

There are several changes in the works for terrans. Reapers against zerg are stronger than expected. Due to the zealot build time increase, reapers would be a bit problematic in combination with proxy barracks, bunkers, and/or marauders against protoss. Therefore, we have decided to increase the build time of reapers as well from 40 to 45 seconds. Fast reaper + bunker, or fast marine + bunker rushes are problematic against zerg. Although this rush would never outright destroy the zerg player, we feel zerg suffers too much of a disadvantage from either having to cancel the fast expansion, or getting trapped inside the main base for too long, so we are also increasing the bunker build time from 30 to 35 seconds.

Siege tanks in large numbers are performing too well in all matchups. In the mid- to late-game, siege tanks are too dominant against all ground units. We want a small set of light and unarmored ground units to perform better against siege tanks. With this in mind, we're changing the Siege Mode damage of the siege tank from 50 to 35, +15 vs. armored; to correspond with this, damage upgrades will be changed from +5 to +3, +2 vs. armored. This change reduces the base damage of the siege tank against light and unarmored units, as well as the splash damage.

Battlecruisers currently lack good counters from the ground and still perform very well against a wide array of unit types. We're aware that it is not easy to get battlecruisers out for the cost, but at the same time, it is possible in both 1v1s and team games to create stalemate situations to bring them out. Overall, we feel that battlecruisers are too strong for their cost, and the terran-forced stalemate situations are causing less interesting gameplay. We will be lowering their damage against ground units from 10 to 8.

Zerg

Ultralisk damage is being decreased from 15, +25 vs. armored to 15, +20 vs. armored. This reduction is comparable to the changes being made to the battlecruiser and siege tank. Like the battlecruiser, ultralisks are simply too powerful for the cost, even though they are difficult to muster. Also, in combination with other units, ultralisks are difficult to counter from the ground. The ultralisk building attack (Ram) is being removed because the damage rate is too similar to its normal attack, which will be used against buildings instead. When ultralisks target tightly packed smaller buildings such as supply depots, the Ram attack is actually outputting considerably less overall damage than its normal attack, as Ram only hits a single target.



And Beyond...

We are reading your posts on the forums and creating lists of features and bugs to address in future patches. We have mid- to long-term plans to further evolve the Custom Game experience, and soon, enhance our social features with the addition of chat channels. We will be sharing more specific information in the coming weeks. As with all of our previous games, we will support StarCraft II for many years to come. Your feedback and participation is critical in making this not only the best game it can be, but also the most engaged gaming community in the world. We look forward to the implementation of patch 1.1, as well as sharing our plans for our future gameplay and Battle.net features.
This looks really good. Hydralisks might become a very viable unit against Terran now. This patch looks like it's gonna help Zerg a TON.

Found at http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/554901#blog

The increase in zealot build time makes PvZ and any early pool play terrifying .

 

[Minato]

protoss nerfs since start of beta makes me a saad panda =(

also, they're basically killing the entire korean 4-warpgate all-in build with this...

terran: good, enjoy your nerf you *****, and nothing special to report for zergs, we might see more broodlord play now, although I can still see ultra's being used as front-line tanking.

 

[sniffy]

I'm having a few problems with protoss setting up gates outside my base early on but I think that's a more problem related to my lack of skill rather than a race imbalance. The only change to really affect me is the increase in barrack build time but not really an issue.