Hahah you only saw me text rage. In real life a glass of water hit the ceiling from my fist hitting the desk.
**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****
- Thread starter mohawk
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Hahah you only saw me text rage. In real life a glass of water hit the ceiling from my fist hitting the desk.
Soldato
Yer but that's only the same as any race on any game, it's all about balance.
In almost every RTS ever made there is a race that's weaker at the start but very effective mid-late game. In SC2 that race is Zerg. You have to take good with the bad.
I do intend to play more Zerg soon and can already sympathise with you a bit anyway.
Actually Again I'd say its Terran that's really weak early game (hence why they need to wall off)
Once Zerg has its pool down, its actually in a reasonable position, as you can build crawlers lings and queens to keep you safe short term. (although doing so affects your economy)
I can imagine any rush/proxy tactics being very strong against a terran that either hasn't walled off or has let the probe/scv/lings in.
There are many good methods for marcoing your queens. The problem is remembering to religiously inject every 25 seconds. And lets be honest. You may be doing something else on the 25 second mark and get the inject on 26-30 seconds. Throughout the game that remainder energy builds up. It would be nice, if you could constantly inject whilst you had energy, like Terran and Toss can use their Macro abilities as much as they have energy (terran by bringing down multiple mules and Toss by chrono-boosting everything).
Also I would say Terran possibly Toss have the best Macro Potential. as their macro game does not interfere with their Army production. Terran can bring down Mules to Augment their mineral collection. Toss can Chrono-boost out probes to get more collecting faster.
Real studies need to be made to identify which race truly has the best macro.
Certainly I have played many, many games against Terran where they have out-macroed me with fewer workers.
Soldato
I might be on. If I am I'll give you a game.
My username is Milky and that number is 386 I think.
excellent! thank you both
i shall be on later tonight, Rebuilding my PC, it gave up the ghost last night! boo!I've started exploring protoss playing as them, its pretty fun.
Right off the bat from a bigginer protoss prospective but long time terran player, people don't use forcefield enough, its so awesome and effective and that warp in pylon units, bloody amazing
Right off the bat from a bigginer protoss prospective but long time terran player, people don't use forcefield enough, its so awesome and effective and that warp in pylon units, bloody amazing
Soldato
ok all valid points above regarding leagues, so il let it drop now really...each to their own and all that!
as for games tonight il be on (mrhand) - milky i invited u to some games over the weekend and you didnt even bother replying! how ruuuudeeee.
as for games tonight il be on (mrhand) - milky i invited u to some games over the weekend and you didnt even bother replying! how ruuuudeeee.
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The thing is though that the fact that they can wall off effectively gives them a massive advantage in the early game. Once the wall is in place a handful of marines can pretty much stop most things a zerg player could have by that point. Banelings are an option but it's still risky and hard to pull off.
I wouldn't say terran are rush proof, but from my experience they are by far and away in the strongest position against early harrassment. Possibly protoss being the weakest with speedlings.
The problem with zerg is that you have to read your enemy absolutely perfectly every single time you play. If a terran player misses an incoming rush, meh nevermind the wall is always there and very few forces are required to counter. If zerg misses a rush and focuses on economy then gg everytime (or at least in my experience).
I'm not sure whether I would call this imbalanced though (or at least at my level it isn't), because I think the zerg can be hugely dominating in later games. Take the pressure off a zerg player and they can quickly have almost total map control, force the terran/protoss to stay in their main/expansion and it's only a matter of time before they run out of resources. I'm not saying it's an easy win, but it seems to be the general style of most games I play. If I lose it's usually relatively quickly, and if I win it's a drawn out game.
Soldato
Not sure I agree, you can get zealots out ridiculously early this patch.|Thomas| said:
Basically if it's being patched in 1.1, it's overpowered.
Soldato
Anyone having troubles joining custom games? Half the time i click join lobby and nothing happens except the button greys out and theres nothing else i can do except exit the whole game because it says 'not available while joining lobby'
Busting a terran wall with zealots is not really feasible early game. The surface area of a supply depot means 2, maybe 3 max, zealots can take bites at it. If the Terran has more than 2 marines, you're going to lose two or more zealots before you even get the supply depot down, and if he brings 2-3 scvs you just simply aren't going to bust it at all until you've lost your entire early force.
I would go so far as to say, short of a proxy double ten gate, a zealot rush against terran is completely futile against all but the most incompetent Terran opponent. A fast 2-3 stalker build works though, and on maps like Kulas Ravine can usually end the game in under 6 minutes.
Do P players not find they have much trouble with 6pool at the moment? I only go as low as 8pool myself, but if they increase the zealot build time it seems 6pool may be excellent harass build, as long as you can bring the P economy down as much as your own of course.
Soldato
hahaha really?! I apologise!
Have I played you before or did you add me? I only ask because I didn't see any invitations, unless I was concentrating or in a blind rage from losing lol!
i added you, i shouted out too you twice, once directly and the second time i blanket mailed everyone online to see if anyone wanted a 2v2/3v3.....
I don't have much trouble with 6-8 pools, on steppes of war I just assume it by default, and if they don't do it, I just go ahead with two gate pressure into four gate all-in.
Really, 6 and even 8 pool, is instalose for the Zerg if you know it's coming.
Scout with 9 pylon probe, if you see a spawning pool down when you get there, assume a rush. Immediately build two gates at 10 (or 11, if you scout it late), making a wall with a 1 zealot spaced gap between. Chrono zealots as soon as the gates pop. Hotkey 5 probes from your mineral line into one group, the remainder into another group. When you see the lings come out of the zerg base (with your 9 scout) pull your 5 probes from minerals and use them to block the gap between gateways. The lings will kill 1-2 of these by the time your first zealot comes out. Make sure you have more zealots queued up, keep one probe in the gap between gates and use your remaining probes + zealot(s)s to kill the 6-8 lings.
Put 3rd and subsequent zealots on the ramp gap with 'h' pushed. Then proceed to take a single gas, lay a cyber core get a couple stalkers and a mess of zealots 1-a at the zerg base, and collect your zerg-tears
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Soldato
collect your zerg-tears
Your an evil evil man, Kar! :'(
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Well, you have auto-repair for SCV's so it wouldn't be any sort of precedent.
They should get rid of that.
I don't have much trouble with 6-8 pools, on steppes of war I just assume it by default, and if they don't do it, I just go ahead with two gate pressure into four gate all-in.
Really, 6 and even 8 pool, is instalose for the Zerg if you know it's coming.
Scout with 9 pylon probe, if you see a spawning pool down when you get there, assume a rush. Immediately build two gates at 10 (or 11, if you scout it late), making a wall with a 1 zealot spaced gap between. Chrono zealots as soon as the gates pop. Hotkey 5 probes from your mineral line into one group, the remainder into another group. When you see the lings come out of the zerg base (with your 9 scout) pull your 5 probes from minerals and use them to block the gap between gateways. The lings will kill 1-2 of these by the time your first zealot comes out. Make sure you have more zealots queued up, keep one probe in the gap between gates and use your remaining probes + zealot(s)s to kill the 6-8 lings.
Put 3rd and subsequent zealots on the ramp gap with 'h' pushed. Then proceed to take a single gas, lay a cyber core get a couple stalkers and a mess of zealots 1-a at the zerg base, and collect your zerg-tears
Yea, this is definitely the standard ideal response. I have broken it a few times due to the toss play making error, just 2 probes at wall in etc, but that boosted zealot will get out before any decent eco damage can be done.
What i'm wondering is if the extra time its going to take in 1.1 for the zealot to pop is going to give the zerg player enough time go through a rather large number of probes, maybe even getting the pylon.
It'll be harder. But we had these timings back in the beta when phase 2 first started. They then rolled the changes back.
I remember 6 pools being more common, but not like the only strat being used. That was with a much smaller sample set though, being the beta.
I think probably with the patch on steppes, you'll need to go 9 pylon, 10 gate, 10 pylon, 11 gate to be safe since the lings can probably take out one pylon but definitely not two. If they go for your probes you can easily dance around until you get 1-2 zealots out.