Sweat/Sauna Suits - are they a fad?

[Begbie]

I haven't dropped 1 second but I'm dripping wet.
I can do 5k in 24:30 but I'm way into my anaerobic zone so I run at 30 minutes to keep on the top level of my aerobic zone.
I can run 3k at that pace with or without a bin bag.
However if I put the bin bag on then surely it increases my body temp therefore burning off more calories than normal?

Can you not test this for yourself?

Do it one week with, one week without see if you lose/gain weight?

 

[Morba]

Can you not test this for yourself?

Do it one week with, one week without see if you lose/gain weight?

Far too unscientific to gain any worthwhile conclusion.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I would think that you could run 5k in 30 mins with or without a bin bag my Terminator friend.

Lets put it another way.
If you ran 5k on a treadmill in 30 minutes but the following day you took the treadmill into a sauna and still ran 5k in 30 minutes which exercise would burn the most calories?

Or another way -
If you ran for 5k in 30 mins in England in about 18c but the following day flew to Turkey and ran the same 5k in 30 mins in 40c which one would burn the most calories?

I have a link to somebody who confirms this but obviously I can find links that say no - http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1815702/do_you_burn_more_calories_exercising.html?cat=50

Who is right?

do you watch UFC? or the ultimate fighter?

you will see that when fighters use these suits to lose weight, it takes a huge toll on their stamina. they cannot fight for as long or at the same pace they are used to.

thiago alves is a prime example of this

The Alves/Fitch rematch, originally slated for UFC 107, then UFC 111, then UFC 115,[19] finally took place at UFC 117[20]. This fight was confirmed to be the number one contendership for the welterweight championship (to fight the winner of the St-Pierre/Koscheck bout). Alves again failed to make weight, weighing in at 171.5 lbs, meaning he had to give up 20% of his fight purse. Alves would go on to lose to Fitch via unanimous decision.[21] Dana White stated in the post fight press conference that Alves could be moving to the middleweight division. [22]
Days later, Alves said that he'd been given one more chance by the UFC to compete as a welterweight.

Alves rather than lose another 0.5lbs decided to give up 20% of his purse. This is how much of a toll it was going to take on him and showed how much it had taken on him in the fight. He has now been given 1 more chance to try and cut weight otherwise he will need to fight at middleweight in future.

If you can run the exact same time and speed with/without a sweat suit then you arent running flat out or to your full potential. Therefore it would be more beneficial to run at your full potential rather than at the same normal rate with a suit.

i really dont know how many times i need to say it before you understand. if you wanna lose weight you need to run faster and for longer. Using this suit is a false sense of security. Theres a reason why duncan bannantyne rejected it along with all the other dragons.

also if it was such a good product the guy wouldnt need to go on dragons den to try and sell it, it would have made him a billionaire by itself. but as i understand he was making a loss or breaking even.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

do you watch UFC? or the ultimate fighter?

Yeah, I started with Bushido in the 80s, UFC and now MMA - never miss it.

If you can run the exact same time and speed with/without a sweat suit then you arent running flat out or to your full potential. Therefore it would be more beneficial to run at your full potential rather than at the same normal rate with a suit.

I already mentioned that I can run half marathons so doing 5k at exactly the same time in a bin bag is no problem.
Of course I'm not running at full potential or else I'd be doing 5k in 24:30 but see below.

i really dont know how many times i need to say it before you understand. if you wanna lose weight you need to run faster and for longer. Using this suit is a false sense of security. Theres a reason why duncan bannantyne rejected it along with all the other dragons.

I have to take exception here.
I have been told over and over by trainers that to lose weight you need to keep in your aerobic zone an definitely not run fast as you can.
I have done many full and half marathons while at least 3 stone overweight because I run in my anaerobic zone.
You should have said running in your aerobic zone for longer and further.

My daughter is doing a Sports Science degree at Chester and she says they have a treadmill in a sauna so when she gets back she's going to ask for the results.
They also had one at Liverpool Uni (James Moore!) when I visited there before she chose so they must all be doing research on running in the heat.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

this is the same discussion as walking a mile or running a mile which burns more calories?

lets use the abroad analogy.

lets say i can run 10K in an hour in the UK.

i go to africa in the summer and run 10K in an hour and a half.

obviously i will have burnt more calories in africa, that is plainly obvious. but i will also fatigued quicker, and not kept the same pace.

now you could have just ran for 90 minutes in the UK, because you would have been running for the same amount of time as africa, and your body not tire as quickly you would have run farther than you did in africa.

now the impossible equation is, did the calories you burn whilst being hotter greater than the calories you burned from running further?

thats why this is a waste of money, why cant you just run for longer instead? it would be much healtheir for your body than wearing one of these things.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

I think you're using the wrong analogy there because you've got different times.

Lets say Haile Gebrselassie runs a marathon in England in 18c but then runs one in his native Africa in 40c and both are flat marathons (like London).
You know that somebody like him will be running both in virtually the same time so which one would he lose the most calories in?
He would probably find running in London a lot easier but he can't physically go any faster.
It sounds logical to me that running in the heat will lose more calories because your body is putting more effort in.
The big question is how much of a payoff?
If over 30 mins you are only burning another 10% then it is easier to run for another 3 minutes than have the discomfort.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I think you're using the wrong analogy there because you've got different times.

Lets say Haile Gebrselassie runs a marathon in England in 18c but then runs one in his native Africa in 40c and both are flat marathons (like London).
You know that somebody like him will be running both in virtually the same time so which one would he lose the most calories in?
He would probably find running in London a lot easier but he can't physically go any faster.
It sounds logical to me that running in the heat will lose more calories because your body is putting more effort in.
The big question is how much of a payoff?
If over 30 mins you are only burning another 10% then it is easier to run for another 3 minutes than have the discomfort.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haile_Gebrselassie

all of his world records or world best times have been set in cold countries?

Netherlands and Germany seem to be the most popular. both countries hardly famed for having extremely hot climates.

this proves that you cannot run the exact same time in a much hotter country. you will be considerably slower. that is a fact, ask anyone.

that is why i have different times, because you cannot do it in the same time. its physically impossible if your pushing yourself to the limit.

if i was walking then hell yeah. i could walk 10 miles in the UK at the exact same time it would take me to walk 10 miles in Africa. Running full pelt, no chance.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haile_Gebrselassie

all of his world records or world best times have been set in cold countries?

Netherlands and Germany seem to be the most popular. both countries hardly famed for having extremely hot climates.
This proves that you cannot run the exact same time in a much hotter country. you will be considerably slower. that is a fact, ask anyone.

I did say that in my post 'virtually the same times'.
His best time is 2hr 3 mins 59 secs and his time in Dubai was 54 secs slower so in other words (over 26.2 miles) virtually the same time in all that heat (2 secs/mile).
That is quite an achievement and goes to prove my point that for an athlete like him the heat didn't make much difference.

So which marathon would he have lost most calories in?
The one in the cold or the one in the heat?

 

[Royality]

Ok, I've now read through the benefits of sweatsuits that they link to on their site and if you actually check it the article in "support" of it doesn't seem to offer much support at all for sweatsuits being as it is a general article on the benefits of training in the heat. You may lose marginally more calories with the sweatsuit, it's possible but I have my sincere doubts that it will be anything significant or anything that could not be achieved with a bin bag and an ordinary tracksuit - I'll grant you it might look better and be slightly less uncomfortable though.

If you want to get it then by all means go ahead, I'm just giving my uneducated opinion on the benefits or therein lack of them.

The 'benefits' stated:

"Effective Fat-Fighting

Not only does exercising in the heat require more energy and so help with energy-balance, but the it stimulates your body to burn fat (Cheung & McLellan, 1998). This means that instead of using carbs or muscle tissue, fat is the fuel of choice, meaning you lose weight in an effective manner."

I had a quick glance at the referenced article: 'Cheung, S. S., & McLellan, T. M. (1998). Heat acclimation, aerobic fitness, and hydration effects on tolerance during uncompensable heat stress'

From the abstract:

The purpose of the present study was to determine the separate and combined effects of aerobic fitness, short-term heat acclimation, and hypohydration on tolerance during light exercise while wearing nuclear, biological, and chemical protective clothing in the heat

Interesting, it doesn't seem to say anything about testing fat oxidation. Also I emboldened 'light exercise' as it elucidates that this study is a fairly narrow one.

Men who were moderately fit [(MF); <50 ml · kg-1 · min-1 maximal O2 consumption; n = 7] and highly fit [(HF); >55 ml · kg-1 · min-1 maximal O2 consumption; n = 8] were tested while they were euhydrated or hypohydrated by ~2.5% of body mass through exercise and fluid restriction the day preceding the trials.

The sample size of n=7 and n=8 immediately brings the study into disrepute, put bluntly this is not a large enough sample to make any claims that aren't entirely speculative.

From the summary of the study:

In summary, this study leads to the following observations regarding exercise-heat tolerance in an uncompensable heat-stress environment. 1) High aerobic fitness from long-term training and habitual exercise is of significant benefit. 2) When fluid replacement is provided, heat acclimation does not provide significant benefit regardless of fitness status. Fluid replacement may, therefore, be an effective substitute for a heat-acclimation program. 3) The magnitude of improvements in physiological strain with heat acclimation are greater in those subjects with high aerobic fitness, but the improvements are still insufficient to improve exercise-heat tolerance. 4) Mild HY of 2-3% of body mass results in significant impairment, regardless of fitness or heat acclimation status.

If someone can explain to me at what point this study says anything about increased fat oxidation, especially in preference of glycogen (which is a laughable concept anyway), please do tell.

It should be clear by now that the study cited has absolutely no relevance to the claim made. This company has put it here to fool it's potential customers with bad science.

I didn't bother checking the other references, one false reference (especially one as conspicuous as this) is enough to tell me that this company is either full of stupid people who don't understand research or dishonest people who wish to fool people into buying their product with blatant bull****.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I did say that in my post 'virtually the same times'.
His best time is 2hr 3 mins 59 secs and his time in Dubai was 54 secs slower so in other words (over 26.2 miles) virtually the same time in all that heat (2 secs/mile).
That is quite an achievement and goes to prove my point that for an athlete like him the heat didn't make much difference.

So which marathon would he have lost most calories in?
The one in the cold or the one in the heat?

im guessing it was winter time in dubai

 

[Royality]

Your body wishes to regulate body temperature at 37 degrees c as this is the temperature at which our body's processes work most efficiently.

During exercise your body heats up and you begin to sweat, this is the method the body uses to lower heat. Basically your body uses the process of evaporation to cool you down. This doesn't burn any calories. (There are other processes too, but none of them burn calories).

When your body cools below 37 degrees c your body basically does the opposite of when you are hot except it can also create heat by 'burning fat'.

So the more you sweat, the hotter you are, the less fat your body is burning to provide heat. Ergo you burn less fat.

Though this may be wrong... :/

 

[SexyGreyFox]

I didn't bother checking the other references, one false reference (especially one as conspicuous as this) is enough to tell me that this company is either full of stupid people who don't understand research or dishonest people who wish to fool people into buying their product with blatant bull****.

Thanks for that.

So the more you sweat, the hotter you are, the less fat your body is burning to provide heat. Ergo you burn less heat.

So putting a bin bag on could have the opposite effect?

im guessing it was winter time in dubai

I think you think that I'm trying to prove you wrong.
In fact everything you have said I agree with but we're coming from a different angle.
I'm sure if I watched you in the gym you would be running as fast as you can, you'd be lifting weights until you could lift no more and you would do crunches until you cried and I totally accept that if you were suddenly put in a hot climate you wouldn't do as much.
However, people like me just 'top up' with fitness.
I don't run as fast as I can or as far as I can, I've still got a lot more weight I could lift and I could do more crunches whether I'm doing it in the heat or cold but I would get tired quicker in the heat.
I certainly know what heat does and how it slows me down when I get to my proper half marathon training so I 100% agree with you.
I also 100% agree that running further and doing more reps would burn those extra calories off.

 

[Royality]

So putting a bin bag on could have the opposite effect?

I meant burn less fat, though I'm not sure what I said is right. Basically ignore me!

But with regard to the actual product, well it may or may not do what they say (I'd say not) but either way they are misleading customers with fancy references that don't match the statements. This would be enough to tell me it's probably a bad product.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

theres so much stuff that makes you burn calories, etc that you cant use them all at the same time.

if your cold, the body burns calories in order to heat you up, therefore if you wear less clothes around the house, you will effectively lose more weight than normal.

the hotter you get the more your metabolism speeds up so you burn more calories that way.

now which would be better staying hot or cold? i would prefer heat to be honest.

these suits are a waste of time and money. if i wanted to try it out i wouldnt spend more than £5, because you could just use a bin liner. i have used bin liners in the past and bought sweatsuits when i was doing boxing. trust me this stuff never works long term.

 

[Morba]

I don't agree.

Allowing the sweat to be drawn away means allowing it to evaporate, thus decreasing your body temperature. This will decrease the overall amount you sweat. That's the whole point in synthetic sports tops that aim to keep you cool.

The point in the "bin-bag" type suit is that it traps the sweat, preventing it from evaporating. Your body then sweats more as it is struggling to regulate your body temperature but isn't intelligent enough to "know" that sweating isn't working.

but by drawing the sweat away from you, you are still hot and your bodies natual reaction to this is to sweat.
so whether you keep the sweat close to you and warm or move it away from you, you still sweat more.

 

[Morba]

Your body wishes to regulate body temperature at 37 degrees c as this is the temperature at which our body's processes work most efficiently.

During exercise your body heats up and you begin to sweat, this is the method the body uses to lower heat. Basically your body uses the process of evaporation to cool you down. This doesn't burn any calories. (There are other processes too, but none of them burn calories).

When your body cools below 37 degrees c your body basically does the opposite of when you are hot except it can also create heat by 'burning fat'.

So the more you sweat, the hotter you are, the less fat your body is burning to provide heat. Ergo you burn less fat.

Though this may be wrong... :/

so a long min ice bath after workout is better than a sweaty bin bag during workout?
interesting theory, which sounds logical

 

[Psycho Sonny]

so a long min ice bath after workout is better than a sweaty bin bag during workout?
interesting theory, which sounds logical

thers too much science involved to prove which is best. you are also running the risk of becoming ill if your immune system is weak or your body is tired. or you havent been eating right.

theres upsides and downsides to everything. i wouldn't recommend either.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

I've decided that you lot win and I won't be wasting money.

Thanks