Well those are extreme winter tyres, they are not optimised for dry roads. I thought the tyres on the CSL were practically slick?
Winter/Cold weather tyre - What do people recommend?
- Thread starter Gibbo
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Well those are extreme winter tyres, they are not optimised for dry roads. I thought the tyres on the CSL were practically slick?
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Depends what tyres you put on. I said I had MPS2
In any case I wasn't talking about dry roads. I said in anything but snow.
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![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
At last someone with direct back to back experience of both high end tyres and winter tyres on winter roads. You seem to be confirming exactly what thought would be the case.
The tyres in question are winter ones not dedicated snow tyres iirc taximike.
[TW]Fox;17783991 said:
How much more impartial can I be. The winter tyres were free and I paid for the GSD3s, which as i said before are still my favorite summer tyre.
You just have an opnion and will never budge from it and take whatever info you can find to suit your opinion. If there is no information to suit your opinion you just keep repeating yourself in the blind hope your right.
I have Quattro, what are these 'winter tyres' you homogays speak of, I don't need any such rubbish, my car will drive on the ceiling and everything, it will even corner quicker AND climb one of those ski jumps, I saw it on the telly and the salesman told me, you lot are all fools, fools I tell you!!!
It can drive on the moon, there is an RS4 on there now from the last, secret, moon landing made by the Ivory Coast Space Agency
Moon or summer tyres?
And now it seems my opinion is shared by somebody with practical experience of both a UHP tyre and a winter tyre during the winter months.
What problems did you encounter with the GS-D3's during the winter months where there wasn't any snow, out of interest? I'm not sure I've ever asked.
As you know I used to run GS-D3's - infact I went through 4 winters on them - and never once found there was any less grip than there ordinarily was, unless the road was a sheet of ice or covered in snow. They were useless in snow but I've never once claimed that they are anything but.
I found them perfectly suited to the wet mucky weather we usually get, infact. They inspired plenty of confidence and delivered fantastic wet performance irrespective of the outside temperature. Part of the reason why I liked them so much.
And I do notice poor tyre performance - you'll remember I binned perfectly good Dunlop SP Sport 2000E's because I was unhappy with the level of performance they provided. Actually thinking about it, it was infact December 2006 I ended up changing those and being immediatly impressed with the extra grip provided by the replacement tyres. If your opinion is to be beleived, I should have been struggling for grip as my tyres changed to the consistency of plastic, or didnt heat up, or whatever happens to them this week.
Trouble with this particular debate is there is no information to suit either opinion. I don't accept the generic 'winter v summer tyre' graphs where no mention is made of what the summer tyre actually is as credible information. Only once have I ever seen a specific tyre NAMED in a comparison and that was the Bridgestone Turenza ER300, hardly reknowned for its market leading wet performance in the first place.
And now we have somebody whose opinions I trust with a wealth of experience in various high performance cars pointing out that he did infact fit winter tyres and found that oh, when it wasnt snowing, they didnt offer the level of performance his previous UHP tyre did. And that was against a PS2 which as you'll be aware is far from the class leading wet performance tyre..
I am not neccesarily suggesting that its this forum at fault but it seems all over the internet, suddenly, if you dont have winter tyres you are some sort of idiot. Because hey, its winter soon, and they say Winter the label so they automatically must be superior in ALL situations in December to ALL other tyres out there. And anyone who disagrees is an idiot, etc etc. Perhaps thats why I seem to be on a crusade every time yet another winter tyres are the second coming of jesus thread appears
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I don't really need to go through this again. The GSD3s were my favourite tyre and I even took the Rosso of our A3 2.0TFSI quattro at 4k to fit them (they also replaced P-zero Assymetricos on my T4). They transformed the car and it finally drove and gripped like I wanted it to. When we got given the Wintercontact TS810s in Oct 2007 I couldn't believe the difference in grip as I've said before.
Whats your experience of both UHP winter and summer tyres? Your opinion and experience? Google? or Somebloke from the internet?
No one is telling you to fit them I don't see your problem with them. All the tyre manufacturers haven't made the whole market up. They all sell different tyres all over the world depending on market. If you don't want them don't buy them.
Whats your experience of both UHP winter and summer tyres? Your opinion and experience? Google? or Somebloke from the internet?
No one is telling you to fit them I don't see your problem with them. All the tyre manufacturers haven't made the whole market up. They all sell different tyres all over the world depending on market. If you don't want them don't buy them.
But thats all you are, isn't it? Some bloke off the internet. Why should I trust your experiences any more than I trust Tax Evaders?
I've got two people relaying experiences in this thread.
Person 1 tells me that a summer tyre he used - that I also used - was sufficiently poor in cold but non snow conditions that another tyre was able to offer him demonstratably superior grip, even though when I ran that same tyre I experienced no distinguishable difference in performance at all. If I didn't experience any performance issues whatsoever it's quite hard to see how I could noticeably improve on 'excellent grip'.
Then person 2 tells me he tried a reputable, well regarded winter tyre and found that actually, whilst the snow performance was excellent, when it was simply wet or dry and not snowing the tyre offered considerably less performance than his UHP tyre.
So when I decide that I think Person 2's experiences are more relevent and far more likely to be correct, you think I am taking my opinion from 'some bloke on the internet'. Whoever I decide to trust I'm doing that.
Sorry, but I just think his experiences are more accurate.
A good friend of yours who posts on this forum and has actually lived in a country where winter tyres are used properly also beleives that the use of them over here is a bit ridiculous.
Maybe ask him about that?
You have spent the last 6 pages or so saying how winter tyres are no good in our climate but have absolutely no experience of them. Tax evader only mentioned his experience in the last page but now that justifys your argument. His experience and opinion is fair enough he tried them and didn't find they were any good. The two tyres he tried were totally different to the two tyres I directly compared and also the car he had them on was totally different. As the title of the thread says "Winter/Cold weather tyre - What do people recommend?" Its the same old thing you have your opinion (again with no experience) and everyone who disagrees is wrong.
[TW]Fox;17785276 said:A good friend of yours who posts on this forum and has actually lived in a country where winter tyres are used properly also beleives that the use of them over here is a bit ridiculous.
Maybe ask him about that?
Wicksta lived in Germany 10 years ago and I value his opinion a lot but things have moved on since then. Also I wouldn't think that with the snowfall that Munich has that they would run the same winter tyres that are marketed for over here.
I wouldn't listen to Tax Evader, his car had awful handling, went sideways everywhere, I told him to get 4WD to make it better but he would have none of it. I think on that basis we can discredit his view and even more so now he's gone all V8, only idiots drive a V8, they shouldn't be listened to.
This is why I spent so long researching and reading every review out there and asking those with the same car as myself in the US and Germany what winter tyre they used that still had acceptable dry/warm performance. I've not seen anyone with performance cars singing praises for the Vredstein winter tyres, the only people who rave about them have well standard cars who probably never push the limits.
The conclusion was pretty much the same from everyone, the Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3.
The EVO X responds to sidewalls stiffness more noticably than any other car I've driven and people in particular the USA had been running Michelin Pilot Sport 2 on their EVO X and for the winter changed over to the PA3's and comments such as dry/warm performance was not far off the PS2, yet its cold/wet performance is superior and it has actual ability in snow, just not extreme amounts of snow.
I fitted the PA3's a few weeks back, definetely too early now in judgement as all apart from about 5 days temps have been around 10c, as high as 15c infact.
But I can say is that on those warm 15c days I drive my car just as hard as I did on the AD08's and yes its not as responsive, the feedback is not as much and yes the turn in is mushier due to the soft sidewall, but its by no means so bad it spoils the car, I can still push it hard and enjoy it.
The difference is now when you approach the limits you can feel the tyre moving around on the wheel, almost as if your pushing the tyre of the wheel kind of feel, though you know thats not the case. So basically the car just pushes wider now at extreme limits, wheras on the AD08's due to much stiffer sidewalls the car will not push as much it will progressively let go and slide.
Admittedly dry grip even when sub 10c the AD08 is superior by approx 5mph in faster corners, in slower tighter corners there is not much difference. But what the winter tyres to compromise is high speed stability, wheras on the AD08's the car felt stable at 150mph, on the winter tyres it moves around more which comprimises confidence.
Still the AD08's are a tyre in the same league as the Michelin CUP's but with even stiffer sidewalls, so you can imagine I am gonna notice the difference.
I believe if I was running PS2's on the EVO in terms of feel/feedback the PA3's would not have lost much at all which I think Michelin deserve credit where due for truly designing a proper winter sports tyre with the Pilot Alpin PA3.
However if I had been running PS2's on an EVO I'd not have changed to Winter tyres as I'd get by on those with the car been 4WD.
The main test for these PA3's will be snow to see if they really are as good as they are made out to be, if they are then I will be extremely happy because Michelin have a winter tyre that works well on those dry warmer days, is excellent in the wet and has snow ability.
But don't get me wrong as happy as I am with them, I can't wait to get the AD08's back on to make the ride so much stiffer, more uncomfortable, more road noise, by that incredible turn in, road feel and ultimate dry grip I can't wait to get back.
I wonder if you'd think the same if you didnt get free winter tyres. Would you be spending hundreds of pounds on some to get you through the hell that is a wet Friday in January on the M6 I wonder?
I don't think they are 'no good', I think they are not really any better than high end tyres in wet/dry winter weather. Everyone suddenly seems to think they are a must have. In some regards, people are now compromising performance in order to have the latest internet fad. Tax Evaders experience has merely backed up my thoughts.
I don't need to have directly tried a set to have the opinion that tyres I *have* used provided ZERO issues during the winter months unless it was snowing, do I? Just like I don't need to have owned a Maxtor hard drive to say it would be 'no more reliable' than my WD HDD, if you see my point. Why would I have tried a set if I encountered absolutely no issues at all with my existing tyres? What sense would that make?
'Well, my UHP tyres are coping brilliantly with winter, so I think I shall replace them immediatly by either spending £600+ on a set in my size, or fitting some steel wheels'
What an illogical decision that would be
Had I had any issues with grip on my UHP tyres you know I'm the sort of person who would immediatly have replaced them.
And you are no different to me opinion wise. I remember you wouldnt hear a bad word said against your beloved Audi's until you changed to something else
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[TW]Fox;17786283 said:
Whats getting free tyres got to do with me giving an opinion on the performance that was initially asked for in this thread. If anything the fact they were free means I don't have any blind obligation to rave about them.
[TW]Fox;17786283 said:
LOL your thoughts based on no experience. I could imagine how you would rip someone apart if they came and gave an opinion you didn't like with no experience on the subject.
[TW]Fox;17786283 said:
Makes your opinion worthless in my eyes. Like my mums opinion about Maxtor harddrives, I wouldn't trust that either. Especially in the summer when you tell people to fit the best tyres they can because you never know when you might need that extra performance to stop. Yet you don't see the point if other people want to fit winter tyres in the winter.
[TW]Fox;17786283 said:'Well, my UHP tyres are coping brilliantly with winter, so I think I shall replace them immediatly by either spending £600+ on a set in my size, or fitting some steel wheels'
What an illogical decision that would be
Had I had any issues with grip on my UHP tyres you know I'm the sort of person who would immediatly have replaced them.
Thats why this thread isn't yours and was asking for opinions of people who have used them. No one has told you to fit winter tyres I really don't see why your so bothered if people do fit them.
[TW]Fox;17786283 said:And you are no different to me opinion wise. I remember you wouldn't hear a bad word said against your beloved Audi's until you changed to something else
You forget the discussion we had on the Audi. Most of them revolved around you calling the Haldex system crap and only FWD most of the time. You didn't know anything about that either yet had an incredibly strong opinion on the subject.