Spec Me A Camera

Soldato
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Hi,

Later this year I'm going to be travelling through Europe and taking pictures of the beautiful places I visit. I haven't done photography for about 2 years, when I did a Photography A Level using a film camera. I don't really know much about digital cameras so I've come to this forum for some help.

All I know is I want a DSLR camera and my budget is around £300, hoping to buy it in about a months time. I don't mind buying second hand, I could always spend more if it's worth it, I'm after a good camera that I can use for a few years.

If any of you excellent photographers could lead me in the right direction, that would be greatly appreciated :)

Thanks,
yhack
 
Soldato
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I'm not an excellent photographer, but I have just made a buying decision myself - my advice would be:

- the biggest decision is which system you want to buy into - Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Sony, Panasonic/Olympus/4thirds. Each system is likely to have broadly similar bodies at each price point, so you need to consider availability/cost of lenses & accessories, as these are likely to be the biggest cost you incur.

- do you just want it for stills, or video as well? If you go secondhand the range of bodies with video capability will be far more limited.

- are size/weight/build quality important? Entry level bodies tend to be smaller, lighter and plastic bodied. Conversely the further up the range you go the larger & heavier bodies become, but with the benefit of metal bodies and in some cases weather seals.

- what type of lenses will you need? For travel I'm guessing you won't want to cart around a range of lenses, so consider what focal lengths will be important to you. A do-it-all zoom which will allow you to take anything from portraits to landscapes with the penalty of slightly smaller max apertures?

When I bought my camera recently I decided to go for a Canon (huge range of lenses and good 2nd hand body availability), didn't want to take video, wanted a larger, metal body (as I found it more comfy to handle) and a cheap, sharp lens for general people shots with a wide max aperture. Ended up with a 2nd hand Canon 40D with new 50mm f1.8 lens, which I'm very pleased with - however it was about £475.

Check out http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/ for both new prices and the links to suppliers on the right for second hand equipment (I got my body from mpbphotographic and can recommend them).
 
Soldato
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Thanks for the reply

- the biggest decision is which system you want to buy into - Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Sony, Panasonic/Olympus/4thirds. Each system is likely to have broadly similar bodies at each price point, so you need to consider availability/cost of lenses & accessories, as these are likely to be the biggest cost you incur.
I'm not really fussed about brand since I don't really know much about any of them, I've heard good things about Canon and Nikon though. Possibly Canon since you've said they have many lenses and good body availability.

- do you just want it for stills, or video as well? If you go secondhand the range of bodies with video capability will be far more limited.
Just stills right now, not really that interested in video at the moment.

- are size/weight/build quality important? Entry level bodies tend to be smaller, lighter and plastic bodied. Conversely the further up the range you go the larger & heavier bodies become, but with the benefit of metal bodies and in some cases weather seals.
I would prefer a metal body and good build quality. Size and weight don't really matter that much.

- what type of lenses will you need? For travel I'm guessing you won't want to cart around a range of lenses, so consider what focal lengths will be important to you. A do-it-all zoom which will allow you to take anything from portraits to landscapes with the penalty of slightly smaller max apertures?
Preferably a lens which can take good landscape pictures and is okay for portraits. I'll mainly be using it for taking photos of buildings and landscapes. Which type of lens would be good for this?

When I bought my camera recently I decided to go for a Canon (huge range of lenses and good 2nd hand body availability), didn't want to take video, wanted a larger, metal body (as I found it more comfy to handle) and a cheap, sharp lens for general people shots with a wide max aperture. Ended up with a 2nd hand Canon 40D with new 50mm f1.8 lens, which I'm very pleased with - however it was about £475.
Would you recommend buying the lens and body separately? If my budget is £300 or so, how much should I spend on the body and lens?

Check out http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/ for both new prices and the links to suppliers on the right for second hand equipment (I got my body from mpbphotographic and can recommend them).
I'll have a look at those websites, thanks :)
 
Associate
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I may (definitely) be punching way above you're budget here, but I'm still using my Canon 40D and Tamron 28-75mm 2.8 and it's done me brilliantly. The 40D should be cheap these days (I could well be wrong, I haven't looked at prices for ages). Alternatively think about a decent body but cheap manual focus lens with an adaptor? I got a 50mm for about £15 on ebay, and it's pretty good for what I paid.
 
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For £300 you won't get much - the lowest specced canon, nikon, pentax or sony kit only. They're pretty much the same it makes little or no difference which brand you pick. There is a bigger market of used gear for cnaon and nikon as they're the most popular brands and pentax has a great array of manual focus lenses which can be used on the camera (and these would be good for landscapes as manual focus won't be an issue).

Just have a fiddle with them in a camera store and pick one!
 
Soldato
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I'm not really fussed about brand since I don't really know much about any of them, I've heard good things about Canon and Nikon though. Possibly Canon since you've said they have many lenses and good body availability.

It's probably fair to say that Canon and Nikon are the biggest brands today with DSLRs, you won't go wrong with either.

I would prefer a metal body and good build quality. Size and weight don't really matter that much.

For an alloy body you're really looking at the xxD 'prosumer' level from Canon (40D/50D.....although not the 60D oddly) or higher. Given your budget it's probably not do-able so don't get too hung up about it, loads of non-metal bodies are beautifully built as well.

Best thing to do is head down to the largest Currys/PC World near you and spend some time handling the bodies on display, they might not have the exact model you want to buy, but it will give you a good idea of the size and weight of the entry level vs mid-range cameras. I was originally looking at either a Canon 500D or Nikon D3100 but after having some hands-on time found them a bit cramped and prefered the larger size of the Nikon D90, which pushed me to look at alternatives online.

Preferably a lens which can take good landscape pictures and is okay for portraits. I'll mainly be using it for taking photos of buildings and landscapes. Which type of lens would be good for this?

Would you recommend buying the lens and body separately? If my budget is £300 or so, how much should I spend on the body and lens?

Can't advise on the lens as I've not had much experience in that area (although it sounds like some kind of zoom - wide angle for landscapes, tighter for portraits), generally lenses included as part of a kit do tend to be on the cheaper side and buying body & lens separately does give you more flexibility, although will probably work out more expensive.

£300 will be a bit tight to be honest. New, your choices are pretty limited either the Canon 1000D or Pentax K-x with kit lens (about £350) or the Sony A290 with kit lens (£300). Both are entry level models, the 1000D is meant to be pretty good, not sure about the Sony.

Second hand maybe a Nikon D60 body (£200 ish) or pushing the budget a D80 (£300) plus lens.
 
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Soldato
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Ah, well I think I will extend my budget. I thought £300 would get my something quite good, but I would much rather spend more to have a better camera than spend that amount and have an entry level one.

If I were to buy a 40D, what price would I be looking at for a worthwhile lens? Is second hand worth it?

I remembered I have this "PROFESSIONAL HIGH SPEED AUTO FOCUS DELUXE SUPER WIDE ANGLE LENS", which is 58mm at the camera-end of the lens, will I need a specific adapter to use this on the camera?

I will go to town tomorrow and have a look in the shops at cameras also. Thanks for the replies so far :)
 
Soldato
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What sort of travelling are you doing, we not talking backpacking I take it? If you want a metal body from Canon then it's really XXD series for you and with your budget you're looking at 20D/30D (20D can be as low as £150 for a good example and £200+ for 30D) which to be fair are still very capable bodies. I would recommend you may be try to pop down a local shop and try them though as they are not light or small to handle and while you may not think it's an issue now when you actually have to carry one around on your holiday, you may think differently. This of course doesn't leave you much in terms of budget for a lens (around £100) and sometimes you could get away with a wide prime for a light combo but in case of XXD bodies they have a 1.6 field of view factor so cheapest widest prime you can get (28mm f/2.8, £150ish) would be an equivalent of almost 45mm which may not be quite wide enough.

Of course you do have an option of getting yourself a bridge camera and while I'm not up to date with the models for £300 I know that you can get a decent example which would give you a much better focal range than DSLR for the money. The new generation of Micro Four Thirds cameras also get good feedback as travel cameras due to their small size (Panasonic GF1 for example) but tend to lack some things like optical viewfinders and built in flashes but with a combination of either the kit (14-42) or the infamous 20mm F/1.7 pancake lens make good travel companions.

You also have an option of simply getting a powerful compact cameras on the lines of Canon G series and with your budget you're looking at the newer G11 or even G12 models. Those would give you an option of a build in flash and viewfinder as opposed to Micro Four Thirds competitors and also provide you with many features of a DSLR in a very compact body that will be easy to carry around and also depending where you travel not attract unwanted attention from "opportunists". There are of course alternatives to Canon in this market too.

Now I know you said that you're sure you want a DSLR but maybe if you ask yourself why you want one you'll be able to better decide which format to go for and if you actually need one to begin with and could get away with a much smaller and lighter alternative.
 
Soldato
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I guess your looking at £320+ for a 40D then £180+ for a half decent zoom unless you just go with a kit lens or the sorts.
£180 for the lens? I'll save up a bit more I think :)

What sort of travelling are you doing, we not talking backpacking I take it?
I'll be flying to Spain and getting trains or coaches to several cities in Europe, staying in hostels or friends houses along the way. During that I'll be going to a 10 day festival in Spain, but I think I will leave the camera at my friends house in Barcelona for the festival.

If you want a metal body from Canon then it's really XXD series for you and with your budget you're looking at 20D/30D (20D can be as low as £150 for a good example and £200+ for 30D) which to be fair are still very capable bodies. I would recommend you may be try to pop down a local shop and try them though as they are not light or small to handle and while you may not think it's an issue now when you actually have to carry one around on your holiday, you may think differently. This of course doesn't leave you much in terms of budget for a lens (around £100) and sometimes you could get away with a wide prime for a light combo but in case of XXD bodies they have a 1.6 field of view factor so cheapest widest prime you can get (28mm f/2.8, £150ish) would be an equivalent of almost 45mm which may not be quite wide enough.
The 30D seems more in my price range then, is the 40D a lot better than it? I'll go and have a look at all of these in town tomorrow if I can find them. I'll extend my budget to around £400 and maybe I could get a better lens and a 30D.

Of course you do have an option of getting yourself a bridge camera and while I'm not up to date with the models for £300 I know that you can get a decent example which would give you a much better focal range than DSLR for the money. The new generation of Micro Four Thirds cameras also get good feedback as travel cameras due to their small size (Panasonic GF1 for example) but tend to lack some things like optical viewfinders and built in flashes but with a combination of either the kit (14-42) or the infamous 20mm F/1.7 pancake lens make good travel companions.
I don't really know anything about bridge cameras, I'll have a read about them later today. I prefer using the viewfinder for taking pictures so maybe I'll give them a miss.

You also have an option of simply getting a powerful compact cameras on the lines of Canon G series and with your budget you're looking at the newer G11 or even G12 models. Those would give you an option of a build in flash and viewfinder as opposed to Micro Four Thirds competitors and also provide you with many features of a DSLR in a very compact body that will be easy to carry around and also depending where you travel not attract unwanted attention from "opportunists". There are of course alternatives to Canon in this market too.
I would rather not get a compact camera because when I was using a film camera, having control of the settings was a great advantage and I don't really like 'auto' settings. I don't mind carrying around a large camera because it will either be in my hands or in my bag, I won't have it hanging around my neck or anything for someone to grab.

Now I know you said that you're sure you want a DSLR but maybe if you ask yourself why you want one you'll be able to better decide which format to go for and if you actually need one to begin with and could get away with a much smaller and lighter alternative.
The reason I want one is to build a bigger photography portfolio and put it on a website. I'm going to have a long holiday in Europe in the summer so I think this is a good time to get one. Maybe one day I could make some money from photography, I'm not sure. I would like to have a camera which I can upgrade in the future and that will last me a while. I would use the traditional camera that I have, but I don't have access to a dark room any more and I would like to be able to edit my photos in Photoshop and put them on my computer. I will read more into the types of cameras you've suggested, thanks for the help :)
 
Soldato
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I would rather not get a compact camera because when I was using a film camera, having control of the settings was a great advantage and I don't really like 'auto' settings. I don't mind carrying around a large camera because it will either be in my hands or in my bag, I won't have it hanging around my neck or anything for someone to grab.

The sort of compacts I'm talking about (G11, etc) are designed to rival some of the entry level DSLRs and pack a lot of features, including RAW format and offer plenty of manual features in a small body. Have a read of some reviews (this for example) to see what I'm talking about:

Canon's Powershot G-series is a stalwart of the high-end compact camera market. Originally designed to offer film SLR users a (relatively) affordable ladder into enthusiast digital imaging, over the past ten years G-series cameras have evolved to become what they are now - aspirational, high-quality compact cameras and attractive second bodies for existing DSLR users, fitting into the niche between 'mainstream' compact offerings and small DSLRS.

However seeing your other point about wanting to develop your photography then maybe DSLR route is a better way to go. I still have a 20D which I got as my starter DSLR and even for something that's 6 years old it still packs enough punch and 30D is really what many people regard 20D Mark II, in terms of image quality there's not much to decide between them (pretty much identical), it just has some improvement such as a bigger screen on the back and better shutter life. 40D will have improved image quality but you're looking at paying £300+ minimum for a poor example and £350+ for a good one.

I was always a bigger believer in glass anyway unless you're a professional who needs features like weatherproof body, faster buffer and better AF system for sports etc. If you want a good starting point in glass then my recommendations would be Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 which can be had for around £200 so along with a budget of £200 you're looking at having to increase your budget.

Also I'm a Canon user so I'm sure someone can recommend similar setups for other systems such as Nikon, Pentax, Sony, etc.
 
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Also I'm a Canon user so I'm sure someone can recommend similar setups for other systems such as Nikon, Pentax, Sony, etc.

To try and give a Nikon perspective - The D80 is the best option used in that price bracket, you'd just about get a D200 but it doesn't offer many advantages aside from professional build quality as there is a lot of component sharing (same sensor, same AF - that's the important bits)

You could pair it with the old 18-70 AF-S zoom which will be easy to get and cheap as it was the accompanying kit lens, it's not a fast lens but it's sharp and good quality with very decent performance. Don't be put off by the fact it was a kit lens.

The 50mm f/1.8 or f/1.8 are also worthwhile but too long for travelling on their own. If it was me I'd pair it with fast 35mm and 85mm equivalents for travelling, compact, light and flexible... The older 24mm f/2.8 and 50 f/1.8 AF-D are cheap and high quality (and will AF on a D80).

Horses for courses of course, some people will want the 18-200 zoom for travelling, personally I can't stand the thing...
 
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And what's wrong with a used 350D or D70/50/40 for around £150? Leaves you plenty left to get a decent lens, and you'll still get amazing image quality, just at a lower price.

I would say there was a big jump between that and the next generation. I still use my D200 day to day (which is a D80 in IQ terms) but my D70 hasn't made it so far - the 6 to 10 MP resolution jump mattered in my view, the AF, metering and screen are also a big plus on the later generation...I'd say the D70/350D generation is going back a little too far.
 
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Pentax k-x can be had for £400 with a 18-55mm and a 50-200mm lens.
The k-x is also best in it's class for high iso. It has decent video but no manual control in video.

You WONT get a better DSLR for the money, it's IQ is on par with manymore expensive cams.
 
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I have a gf1 which is a bridge camera but mote accurately known as a micro four thirds camera. It's called micro four thirds becuase of the lens mount (the bit of the camera body that you attach lenses too).

I love my gf1 but it's a lot more than £300.

However the e-p1 is on fleabay for about £280 with a lens (refurbished) and that would be an excellent choice. It has no flash and no viewfinder though. But it takes excellent pics.
 
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