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and unfortunately water weighs what water weighs. It's not like I can buy or find light water, lol.

Is that so? :p

 
Caporegime
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Yup. I'm hoping to do the Pacific Crest Trail next year. Mexico to Canada. It's 2650 miles over 4.5-6 months, averaging about 20 miles a day. I can walk 20 miles a day. I can carry 20-25Kg of kit. But doing both of those at the same time, while in hot conditions, up a mountain, for days on end. My weight needs to come down!

At the moment my dry weight is 8.8Kg. Or at least it is for the start sections, before I add bear canisters, ice axe and crampons. The desert sections will also need 5-8 litres of water a day which adds significant weight. Add on to that enough food for up to 8 days at a time and the kit gets heavy.

At the moment I have a spreadsheet trying to work out my kit list etc, and I am slowly shedding the odd gram here and there, but there is only so much I can lose, and unfortunately water weighs what water weighs. It's not like I can buy or find light water, lol.

Once I get into the mountains I pick up the extra kit, but I can also carry a lot less water and just rely on the water filter and rivers. If I can get my average kit down to 15Kg I will be a happy man. Also trying to keep the GFs kit to under 10Kg.

As for camera kit, unfortunately the DSLR stays at home. Am going to buy a point and shoot or some sort of range finder (Nikon Evil when it comes out?) to keep the weight down without compromising image quality too much. Well excited by the idea of the trip though. Just need to battle through paperwork and visa fun first though. :)

Sounds awesome! I've actually been thinking about seeing if I can get into doing some trail maintenence on that in the next couple of years, maybe I'll make it next year for certain.:p

I see where your issue is now and yep, it's going to be a pain. I take it you're dropboxing a lot of your kit so at least that should keep the weight down a bit? What you using for bear canisters? Where I was working last summer (Maine on the AT) we just dumped the stuff in some canvas bags, about 15 ft off the ground going through the motions more than anything, grizzlies are supposed to be a lot nastier than the cute black bears we were dealing with though.:p From what I heard though a lot of the wild campsites in bear country have proper metal bins for you to use, although it seems the bears are getting smarter...

How about a m4/3 camera like the GF2? I think you'll be very disappointed by a P&S tbh but I know where you're coming from, even a 400D with 35 f/2 lens on was a pain when trying to pack it with a weeks worth of provisions.*

Anyway, good luck with sorting it all out, better start talking to yourself now just so you get the practice in, maybe start growing that beard too**.;)

*It's really annoying, I'm sure I had a photo (in fact I'm certain...) of the pile of food we would take up at the beginning of each weeks work, 4 days of food for 6-8 people doing trail work was a pretty impressive sight when dumped in a pile...:D

** The advantage of working at the end of the trail at the end of the season was seeing all the thru hikers coming through... If they were walking through town you would cross the street to avoid most of them at first glance. :D Also you'll probably be suprised how many Brits there are doing the trail if it's anything like the AT, met quite a few.
 
Soldato
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Is that so? :p


:p

Me and my dad were trying to figure out if you could get light water, seeing as you can get heavy water. He tried working out the chemistry of it to see if you could make a light water isotope. I then realised it was a moot point seeing as all my water would be coming from streams along the way, and to turn that into light water I would need several hundred tonnes of chemistry/physics kit, lol.

Sounds awesome! I've actually been thinking about seeing if I can get into doing some trail maintenence on that in the next couple of years, maybe I'll make it next year for certain.:p

I see where your issue is now and yep, it's going to be a pain. I take it you're dropboxing a lot of your kit so at least that should keep the weight down a bit? What you using for bear canisters? Where I was working last summer (Maine on the AT) we just dumped the stuff in some canvas bags, about 15 ft off the ground going through the motions more than anything, grizzlies are supposed to be a lot nastier than the cute black bears we were dealing with though.:p From what I heard though a lot of the wild campsites in bear country have proper metal bins for you to use, although it seems the bears are getting smarter...

How about a m4/3 camera like the GF2? I think you'll be very disappointed by a P&S tbh but I know where you're coming from, even a 400D with 35 f/2 lens on was a pain when trying to pack it with a weeks worth of provisions.*

Anyway, good luck with sorting it all out, better start talking to yourself now just so you get the practice in, maybe start growing that beard too**.;)

*It's really annoying, I'm sure I had a photo (in fact I'm certain...) of the pile of food we would take up at the beginning of each weeks work, 4 days of food for 6-8 people doing trail work was a pretty impressive sight when dumped in a pile...:D

** The advantage of working at the end of the trail at the end of the season was seeing all the thru hikers coming through... If they were walking through town you would cross the street to avoid most of them at first glance. :D Also you'll probably be suprised how many Brits there are doing the trail if it's anything like the AT, met quite a few.

If you do manage to get some trail maintenance work next year, you'll have to keep me updated. Would be cool to meet up.

Yeah, I'll be drop boxing a fair bit of kit, especially the section specific kit such as ice axes, crampons and bear canisters. I don't think I'll be sending on many resupply boxes of food though, as it would probably cost more to buy it here, dehydrate it then ship it over the US than it would to just pick it up along the trail. I might post on things like replacement shoes etc though.

For the bear canisters, I am hoping to get away with Ursacks for most of the trip as they are light. But for a 700mile section, including the John Muir trail, you need to use licensed canisters which are big and heavy! I have found somewhere that rents them out though, so that saves a bit of money. It think the brea problem is much like over on the east coast in that it is the Black Bears that cause much of the trouble as they are inquisitive and increasingly tame so get close to humans. The Grizzlies tend to keep themselves to themselves more, although if you do upset one will take your head off pretty easy.

Yeah, I haven't ruled out a m4/3rds camera. Some of the expensive pos cameras don't seem too bad and have full manual controls etc. I'm half tempted by the Fuji X100, but the price is too much and I would be scared of damaging it. I think ideally I want a Nikon Evil camera if/when they come out.

Hehe, I already have a head start on the beard, so no problem there. I am tempted by not trimming or shaving the whole trip and see how much of a hobo I can look like! Interesting that you say about lots of Brits on the AT. were these thru hikers? My main concern and the thing that might stand in my way is getting the US B2 visa. I would be interested to see how other Brits managed to convince the US embassy that they need a B2.
 
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Wise Guy
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I've come across a fresh pile of bear turds (still steaming) in the woods before and it was a bit unnerving. Are you taking bear mace? People get mauled by bears and mountain lions every year.
 
Soldato
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40L pack Lowe alpine crag ascent 1kg
Sleeping bag and mat 2kg
1/2 man tent 2.5kg
water 1L bottle + purification tablets, repellant spray, sunscreen, first aid kit ~2kg
stove and pan set 0.5kg
windshirt, fleece and waterproof layers, spare socks and underwear, hat. 3kg.
10Mp compact camera waterproof, SD cards. 0.5kg
Compass and maps, satmap GPS. 1kg
Dried food, dried fruit approx 0.5kg per day say 2kg

approx 15kg for three days, everything in the pack except sleeping mat.

Camera, compass and GPS in pockets

18.JPG
 
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Soldato
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I've come across a fresh pile of bear turds (still steaming) in the woods before and it was a bit unnerving. Are you taking bear mace? People get mauled by bears and mountain lions every year.

There's been 1 death from bears in Washington in the last 140 years, none in Oregon and 1 in California (and that was in a zoo), so the odds aren't too bad tbh. As long as you don't spoke the bears or deliberately get too close you should be ok. Doubt I would take bear mace.

40L pack Lowe alpine crag ascent 1kgGolite Jam 0.840kg
Sleeping bag and mat 2kg PHD Designs Minimus Down Sleeping Bag 0.465Kg
1/2 man tent 2.5kg Terra Nova Laser Ultra 1 Tent 0.56kg
water 1L bottle + purification tablets, repellant spray, sunscreen, first aid kit ~2kg
stove and pan set 0.5kg
windshirt, fleece and waterproof layers, spare socks and underwear, hat. 3kg.
10Mp compact camera waterproof, SD cards. 0.5kg
Compass and maps, satmap GPS. 1kg
Dried food, dried fruit approx 0.5kg per day say 2kg

approx 15kg for three days, everything in the pack except sleeping mat.

Camera, compass and GPS in pockets

You are now under 11Kg. ;)
 
Caporegime
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:p

Me and my dad were trying to figure out if you could get light water, seeing as you can get heavy water. He tried working out the chemistry of it to see if you could make a light water isotope. I then realised it was a moot point seeing as all my water would be coming from streams along the way, and to turn that into light water I would need several hundred tonnes of chemistry/physics kit, lol.



If you do manage to get some trail maintenance work next year, you'll have to keep me updated. Would be cool to meet up.

Yeah, I'll be drop boxing a fair bit of kit, especially the section specific kit such as ice axes, crampons and bear canisters. I don't think I'll be sending on many resupply boxes of food though, as it would probably cost more to buy it here, dehydrate it then ship it over the US than it would to just pick it up along the trail. I might post on things like replacement shoes etc though.

For the bear canisters, I am hoping to get away with Ursacks for most of the trip as they are light. But for a 700mile section, including the John Muir trail, you need to use licensed canisters which are big and heavy! I have found somewhere that rents them out though, so that saves a bit of money. It think the brea problem is much like over on the east coast in that it is the Black Bears that cause much of the trouble as they are inquisitive and increasingly tame so get close to humans. The Grizzlies tend to keep themselves to themselves more, although if you do upset one will take your head off pretty easy.

Yeah, I haven't ruled out a m4/3rds camera. Some of the expensive pos cameras don't seem too bad and have full manual controls etc. I'm half tempted by the Fuji X100, but the price is too much and I would be scared of damaging it. I think ideally I want a Nikon Evil camera if/when they come out.

Hehe, I already have a head start on the beard, so no problem there. I am tempted by not trimming or shaving the whole trip and see how much of a hobo I can look like! Interesting that you say about lots of Brits on the AT. were these thru hikers? My main concern and the thing that might stand in my way is getting the US B2 visa. I would be interested to see how other Brits managed to convince the US embassy that they need a B2.

Is heavy water actually heavy? ;)

If I do manage to get out there I definately will let you know, although the chance of being able to meet on the trail would be very slim.

I think food wise getting it in the states (and potentially mailing it on) is probably by far the best idea, there will probably be far more options for hikers than in most of the UK near the trail (get proper bits of dried fruit, it is epically nice!). Those sacks look interesting, although not sure about the idea of just tying them to a branch, in the air above bear height surely?

Interesting story from one of the guys I was working with over there, he mentioned that he accidently managed to sneak up on a black bear in a tree one day so decided to take a photo of it, he took the photo, with the subsequent noise, bear turned round due to it, saw him and promptly fell out the tree.:p

I'd definately go 4/3rds myself, after my parents getting what was supposed to be one of the best bridge cameras out at the moment (panasonic one) the PQ was appaling compared to a DSLR, I assume a 4/3rds camera would be a lot better, maybe a baby tripod as well, else you'll be kicking yourself if you don't take one.

There were a few British thru hikers, not sure what they did for visas unfortunately (although one is now a US citizen after marriage), there was also a "hoods in the woods"* leader from Manchester or somewhere as well.

*Inner city teen groups taken out to the countryside for a few days

You are now under 11Kg. ;)

Yup I'd agree, heavy sleeping bag and very heavy tent. Having said that some of the tents I saw people using I really wouldn't have wanted to sleep in... Some got wet when it rained...:confused:
 
Soldato
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You are now under 11Kg. ;)

Agreed, some of my older gear is too heavy. I do need a new tent and am looking around the £100-200 mark, but not this summer I think. When walking with a collegue, we split the tent load.

Always aiming for that magic 10kg, in winter camping though it is usually closer to 20kg with heavier boots and crampons as well.

cheers, andy

PS Pic looks wild but it was Wetherlam, Lake District January 2010.
 
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Soldato
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Is heavy water actually heavy? ;)

If I do manage to get out there I definately will let you know, although the chance of being able to meet on the trail would be very slim.

I think food wise getting it in the states (and potentially mailing it on) is probably by far the best idea, there will probably be far more options for hikers than in most of the UK near the trail (get proper bits of dried fruit, it is epically nice!). Those sacks look interesting, although not sure about the idea of just tying them to a branch, in the air above bear height surely?

Interesting story from one of the guys I was working with over there, he mentioned that he accidently managed to sneak up on a black bear in a tree one day so decided to take a photo of it, he took the photo, with the subsequent noise, bear turned round due to it, saw him and promptly fell out the tree.:p

I'd definately go 4/3rds myself, after my parents getting what was supposed to be one of the best bridge cameras out at the moment (panasonic one) the PQ was appaling compared to a DSLR, I assume a 4/3rds camera would be a lot better, maybe a baby tripod as well, else you'll be kicking yourself if you don't take one.

There were a few British thru hikers, not sure what they did for visas unfortunately (although one is now a US citizen after marriage), there was also a "hoods in the woods"* leader from Manchester or somewhere as well.

*Inner city teen groups taken out to the countryside for a few days



Yup I'd agree, heavy sleeping bag and very heavy tent. Having said that some of the tents I saw people using I really wouldn't have wanted to sleep in... Some got wet when it rained...:confused:

Yeah, heavy water is apparently 11% heavier than normal water. If it went the other way and you could make 'light' water, you could have up to a 880g saving on the desert sections. ;)

Buying some food in US is certainly an option. Dehydrating your own food though is however out, as it takes months to dehydrate enough food. Sending forward treats and luxuries is quite likely though. I would certainly consider heading out to say San Diego a few weeks early to buy last minute supplies and start mailing them forward.

As for the Ursacks, yeah I think hanging them in the air is by far the best idea. I am planning on taking 50' of Para cord for those sort of jobs, as well as for help crossing rivers and acting as a washing line.

Lol @ the bear falling out of the tree. I would love to see that, but can imagine the bear being a bit ****** off when you start laughing your head off at him falling out of the tree. I'm not sure who would be the last person laughing, you or the bear! (Not that the Bear is a person, but you know what I mean.)

I have seen some really clever ideas for tripods. One person made his own out of carbon fibre modelling rods and managed to make it 100g or something like that. Not very strong or adaptable, but certainly usable and light enough to come along for the ride.

I am still considering tent/tarp options. I would feel safer in a full tent, but you can get a much larger tarp for the same weight. Seeing as we would spend a lot of time in the shelter I feel the extra space of the tarp may be very beneficial. My main options at the moment are;

Tent: Terra Nova Laser
Tarp: MSR Twin Sisters

Still need to narrow it down properly, then go and see them in person etc. There is a lot of kit to research and buy. :)
 
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I think it's 3000 calories and not 4000.

I need more meats and more variety in snacks. Any more suggestions?

What you need is carbs, meat isn't that improtant.

Oats, muesli, granola are all very good. Bananas are good if you can store them without them getting bashed about. Instant noodles are an absolute god send when it comes to hiking, if you've got cooking stuff.

If you're going on the 3 day hike, I would avoid meat if possible due to risk of spoiling, worst thing ever to be stuck in the middle of no where with the trots. Dried goods is your best bet but tried to avoid tinned stuff, you'd be suprised how much they can weigh you down.

As for snacks, mixed nuts with raisins, fruit and nut chocolate, jelly babies (for a quick energy boost).... Can't really think of anything else at the mo....
 
Caporegime
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Why not the Laser comp? I've been contemplating buying one for a while (no money...), it's lighter but I guess also smaller (I assume you're sharing)?

A few of the people I saw on the trail had just very light tarps and a hammock, I guess not as much potential use on your trail though due to the lack and type of trees in a lot of locations?
 
Soldato
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Why not the Laser comp? I've been contemplating buying one for a while (no money...), it's lighter but I guess also smaller (I assume you're sharing)?

A few of the people I saw on the trail had just very light tarps and a hammock, I guess not as much potential use on your trail though due to the lack and type of trees in a lot of locations?

The reason the MSR is winning at the moment is due to several reasons. The first being the size vs the weight. With the MSR tarptent, you get a much bigger shelter for the same weight. Since it is going to be our home for 6 months, it would be nice to have a little extra space to move around.

Also as it has the extra size and no inner tent, it would be easy enough to roll back the ground sheet and actually cook inside the tent if the weather was really bad. In good weather, you could open it all up and let cool air in.

And finally, I like the idea of using the trekking poles as tent poles. It means not doubling up on weight since the trekking poles would be perfectly capable. :)
 
Caporegime
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Completely missed your tarp option... :o The MSR is supposed to be good an the win of not carrying excess poles is always good. I use a tarp when I walk and the two issues my (homemade) one has are both down to me really (and probably not relevant to you). I feel really exposed when sleeping under a tarp on my own (especially on a beach), feel like i'm going to wake up with someone peering in at me... And two, I use a tripod and monopod as poles, not brilliant as poles though... :D

The MSR pretty much sorts all that out though...
 
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