'Not' buying a property.

Soldato
Joined
3 Aug 2010
Posts
2,689
I enjoy renting at the moment. I'm 24, so is my boyfriend, and we rent a 2 bed semi with a garden, garage and driveway for £450 pcm. Our landlord isn't a tycoon, he got left his parents' house when they passed away and decided to rent it rather than sell it. He works in Malaysia for 9 months out of the year so we see him about 3 times a year for a few weeks.

He's brilliant, always has things sorted quick-smart if it needs doing, e.g. our boiler broke down during that really cold spell in December and when other people we knew were waiting 4-5 days before a plumber could get to them, one call to our agency and we had a plumber there the next day.
We've decorated the kitchen and spare room, as they were an utterly vile shade of emerald green (last tenant's handiwork), just painted them to a nice pale yellow, landlord is quite happy for us to do whatever, said we could get our two cats no problem... he really is a gem.

I enjoy renting and like the thought that we could just move if/when our circumstances change.

I don't see it as dead money, I'm paying for somewhere to live. I know it's more expensive but it's like line rental on my phone or staying in a hotel - even though I don't own the house, it is mine in the sense that I live here and see it as home, which I think is money well spent.
The only disadvantage is that while we rent it's more difficult to save for a house we may want to buy in the future. I think I'll realistically be looking at inheritance money from grandparents to put towards my deposit or it'll take us years.
 
Soldato
Joined
7 Jun 2003
Posts
16,093
Location
Gloucestershire
Buying is over rated, i'm 23 and renting and im about to move from a 3 bed detatched house to a 4 bed detatched house with my missus and son. No way in hell we'd be able to afford to buy a 4 bed detatched house without something silly like 100,000£ deposit.

If i stuck to buying i'd still be living in a one bed flat (that i still own currently and rent out) with a look to move up to a 2 bed house in about 2 years, but that'd have been crap size wise. Renting is brilliant if you find the right landlord/house combo :)
 
Associate
Joined
21 Mar 2011
Posts
300
Location
Warrington
How does a 23 y/o afford to rent an £800pm plus property, thats the going rate for a 4 bed detached round here And this isn't a particularly desirable area looking at another £200 for utilities an council tax too. Plus broadband etc.
 
Soldato
Joined
1 Nov 2005
Posts
5,709
How does a 23 y/o afford to rent an £800pm plus property, thats the going rate for a 4 bed detached round here And this isn't a particularly desirable area looking at another £200 for utilities an council tax too. Plus broadband etc.

He lives with his mrs, two incomes are better than one, or he has a good job.
 
Consigliere
OP
Joined
12 Jun 2004
Posts
151,024
Location
SW17
How does a 23 y/o afford to rent an £800pm plus property, thats the going rate for a 4 bed detached round here And this isn't a particularly desirable area looking at another £200 for utilities an council tax too. Plus broadband etc.

If you mean me, yes i live with someone. I currently pay £425 (so £850) a month. Yes it's expensive but it's a great location, quite a large flat and a 5 minute walk away from a Central Line station.

South Woodford is quite desirable.
 
Associate
Joined
21 Mar 2011
Posts
300
Location
Warrington
He'd be better selling his investment flat and using it as a deposit to buy a home after all he has a family now so should be thinking about the future, you can still get decent deals with a 20 percent deposit.
 
Soldato
Joined
7 Jun 2003
Posts
16,093
Location
Gloucestershire
He'd be better selling his investment flat and using it as a deposit to buy a home after all he has a family now so should be thinking about the future, you can still get decent deals with a 20 percent deposit.

£750pm rent, £562pm on mortgage on the flat, £156pm council tax.

When i bought the flat nearly 4 years ago i got a 95% mortage on the place, only £5k went down as a deposit, i wouldn't have anywhere near 20% of the worth of a 3 or 4 bed place yet. Plus the flat is on a fixed rate mortgage, i'm waiting another year until the fixed rate ends before i decide what to do about it else i end up losing nearly £3k for leaving the fixed rate early.

I'm on around £17.5k/pa my missus is on around £15-16k/pa and we only get £450pm from renting out the flat (not ideal i know) and i manage my money well....yes i may not have mega savings but at leaast until im 30 i'm more of a "make the most of it when you have it" kinda guy. When im 30 i'll start thinking about the future more. Though i'm potentially moving up to £24-26k/pa soon which will improve things a fair bit so we can start making savings towards buying in the future, for the time being though we'll be perfectly happy where we are for at least 5 years minimum.

EDIT: just found on rightmove the house i'm moving into soon (the 4 bed) sold for £250k in october 2006, going by that i'd probably need at least £75k in order to buy it, though i guess house prices have fallen since then so im not sure what it is now.
EDIT ON THE EDIT: no im wrong sorry, wrong number houes :p

This is the location i'll be moving to, won't give the exact house number but it's in view of the default location of the camera that's all ill say http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&s...nt+Grove,+Stroud+GL5+1UN,+United+Kingdom&z=17
 
Last edited:
Associate
Joined
25 Oct 2002
Posts
1,758
Location
Winchester
Whilst in the past people have ridden the wave of greater than inflation rises in capital appreciation, that's unlikely to the be the case in the future.

People talk about rent as "wasted" money - but what do they think the interest portion of a mortgage repayment is? The amount you're "investing" is only equivalent to the principal you're paying off each month.

Buying versus renting makes sense in certain area, but not in others... it all depends on the circumstances - you can't say always buying a property is the "right" thing to do (this is something that needs to be knocked out of the British mindset).

^^^ This
 
Soldato
Joined
27 Nov 2004
Posts
10,296
Location
North Beds
The house i live in atm is a 3 bed detached bungalow, with decent size rooms, in a nice are with brilliant views. The landlord actually has it up for sale as well at £195k, and we pay £595 a month.

It's realistically worth more like £160k, so to get a 25% deposit you'd need £40k. To get £40k, I'd have to put £500 a month away for 7 years, which on top of the £595 a month i pay for rent would be completely unaffordable if I wanted to live a decent life as well

lets say we did do that though, and managed to get a 3% mortgage (which in itself is probably unlikely in 7 years) on the 120k left. That's £570 a month, of which £300 is interest (might be off on this figure, ive just done interest only vs repayment mortage difference). So i'd be saving a total of £25 a month and only investing £270 a montnh, after spending £40k, and it'd take a damn long time to see any return on that. I'm not the most economically minded person, but spending £40k to save £25 a month doesn't sound the best idea! I'd be able to get a better return spending that £500 a month on advertising for the business I'm attempting to start up than saving for a deposit!
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
1 Nov 2005
Posts
5,709
Looking at rent vs mortgage cost isn't a direct comparison, you will not have to pay anything per month once you have paid off your mortgage e.g. when I'm 48 I won't have to pay towards rent / mortgage again, and when I pop my clogs, I can pass the accumulated value of my house on to family.
 
Soldato
Joined
25 Mar 2004
Posts
15,779
Location
Fareham
My end game is to buy a place of my own, I currently rent with my bro (he owns the house, I just rent a room here). I'm on £23k going up to £24k in the next month or two but work some overtime and such as well. Renting off my bro costs me £350 pm including bills and such - but not food or anything else that just cover water/electric.

I am saving up for my own place at the moment, was going to get a flat but decided against it due to leaseholding and higher service charges, so now i'll be looking at a cheaper house.

Problem is houses in my area aren't especially cheap, on right move (post code PO16) a cheap house is around £140k, but they look a bit rubbish, so i'd probably need to up the ante a bit to get somewhere I was happy to stay.

After saving most of my spare cash for the last sort of 5 years or so I now have a deposit of £45k all on my own, but even with that if I wanted somewhere that was say £175k i'd need to get a mortgage for £130k.

Bank of mum and dad may chip some money in too but it would be an interest free loan and i'd need to pay it back as soon as I could.
 

v0n

v0n

Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
8,130
Location
The Great Lines Of Defence
People in this country need to get over the idea that they have to buy a property and borrowing many times the joint or single salary. Especially with utilities going to go through the roof.

This way of thinking, I never quite understood. And I don't understand what utilities have to do with anything - you will pay that whether you rent or buy, so it's irrelevant. With few tiny, small exceptions, just about anywhere in South East it is cheaper to pay mortgage than rent. And with lack of rent control, legal ruleset of who and how can rent and complete and utter absence of long term renting, if you rent, you are practically overpaying someone to be at their mercy - because in current "renting" system in UK (and it's not renting at all - current British renting style is more akin to long term motel business than renting of any kind) - landlord can kick you out at a months notice, stipulate rising your rent at will in contract and in exchange, in most cases you can't even hang a picture on the wall, add a phone line or keep pets. No adult can live like that, it's not that we don't want to, but it just makes no sense to do so.

Let me give you an example of how renting market should work. My parents used to rent their apartment under 30 year term. Vetting process was long and thorough, and there was a "trial period" involved, but once accepted for tenancy - it was up to my folks to decide how long within that 30 year period they would like to stay. They could leave with a six months notice but should they, or I, as a registered tenant for many years, decide to stay, we had legal "first dibbs" on securing further 30 years lease. The landlord, once the rent agreement was signed, could not cancel the agreement (unless tenant became negligent or danger to the others and/or property) and could not rise the rent and upkeep fees above inflation rate. And that automatically meant there were no "hit and run" cowboy landlords - you know the type - buy entire terrace, rent it out, let it run to the ground, roofs collapse and skim fall off facades, then sell it at five times market value to another "developer" to divide each property into mop cupboard sized bedsits with a single bog and kitchen to share between 10 students, immigrants or yuppies. No. Renting was long term investment with fantastic long term income.

And for my folks, it made sense to rent too:
What my parents were renting was the space between four walls of the apartment, which meant they could not only do whatever they liked to the "decor" but, within planning regulations and safety, even knock down the walls to open plan and turn balcony into hothouse if they wanted to. And that made perfect sense - they could live in a fully maintained building, with a well kept, swept and lawnmowed courtyard, and because the apartment building was purpose built with rental in mind by the syndicate leaseholding most of the streets in that area, compared to freehold places available on the market, based on geographical position and floorspace, we lived in a place my parents couldn't possibly afford to buy with their own money BUT with absolute piece of mind that it is their family home for many decades to come.

Too many 20 somethings controlled by mortgage repayments instead of actually living their lives and enjoying their time together without kids.
It's the right thing to do in current situation, many of them have a chance to repay it all by age of 40-45 and live rent free for the rest of their lives, whereas most of us, who "enjoyed our time together without kids" care free will try to puzzle together a way to pay off three or four times as much mortgage or rent with a good chance that £140 per week retirement dole will somehow have to pay for the last leg of it.

I personally would like to see tighter controls on the multiplier for borrowing for houses, which would have to bring house prices down to more realistic levels.
That's exactly opposite of what happened. Because renting made no sense and was more expensive, demand for houses rose, and because of the town planning (where most houses are single family tenancy low rise, rather than apartment blocks [ don't mistake with council style anthilling ]) there were not enough properties to cope with demand. In effect the prices rose, and bigger multipliers were required. You kill off high multiplier mortgages and all you going to achieve is more foreign a-holes buying "run to the ground short term rental investments" with suitcases of cash - 1990ies style.


[TW]Fox;18982070 said:
If you dont buy a property you are a massive loser and basically fail at life.

With current rental market and in South East - this is actually - very true. If you don't buy a property you will loose a lot of money.
My personal story is even better anecdote - and you're going to love this Fox - my initial mortgage was the very "no-no" subrime economy crushing 5 times multiplier 100% crazy mofo mortgage taken at the peak of the pricing curve your economy teacher told you gloomy stories about.
And you know what? Best decision ever made. At no point, not even at the very start, were the repayments higher than average rent on the same street. Six years on, with economy down, my repayments are less than half of average rent on the same street. And what is my worst case scenario? That if I'm finally sick of living in this a-hole of the world (Chatham, true story) I will have to sell it and earn no money on it, or maybe even, should economy collapse more - lose few grand at point of sale. Which would still be, financially, in a long run, better off or close to what throwing money away into landlords pocket over the last few years would equate to. In the meantime - I can keep pets, paint my walls and have massive satellite equipment in my garden - for the castle is mine, Baldrick. Now, of course should the economy completely collapse and interest rates hit levels of eighties, I'm screwed, but so is almost every renting tenant on my street, since vast majority of rental properties in this area are rented on the back of BTR mortgages anyway. Someone will have to pay for it.
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
17 Jan 2005
Posts
8,555
Location
Liverpool
I'm 27 and bought my house at the end of 2009. My mortgage including bills etc works out cheaper than it did for me to rent. My girlfriend lives in a nice flat but it costs her just over £600 a month plus bills on top.. Its obscene! My total monthly outgoings are less than her rent alone and I have a nice 3 bedroom semi to show for it.
 

daz

daz

Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
24,076
Location
Bucks
With few tiny, small exceptions, just about anywhere in South East it is cheaper to pay mortgage than rent.

Most of London and the home counties have rents less than the cost of an interest only mortgages. For instance, where I live now, cost ~380k. The rent is £1350 per month.

Unless you're banking on real terms capital appreciation of your property (or you're doing work to it to increase the value) then you can just as easily invest in flexible savings or put the money tax free in to a pension fund. A mortgage is effectively an enforced savings scheme.
 
Soldato
Joined
7 Feb 2004
Posts
3,072
Can I ask those who own houses how they got their deposit, did the majority of people really save up £20K or so, or did they get it through inheritance or some other circumstance?

I bought my first house for 49k in 1997, put down 7k and sold it in 2000 for 59k.
Bought my next house for 120k put a 20k deposit down through the profit on my first so needed a 100k mortgage, still living in this house and currently worth about 320k.

I personally think most people who say renting is best are simply in a position that they can't afford to buy.
I appreciate there are some circumstances when renting is the correct decision although I would rather live in a small house / flat then rent a bigger place.
 
Back
Top Bottom