Abs training advice

Soldato
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20 Jul 2008
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Hi,

I've been training for around 8 months now. I've seen great results but I've never really bothered training my abs and consequently there's not much there at the moment. Around 2 months ago I started training them once a week and even through a cutting phase recently where I've started to get my bodyfat down there's not visibly much there.

1) How often and how hard should you train your abs? I tend to do 3 weights sessions a week similar to Gordy's 3 day split. Am I better off doing some abs related stuff after each day training, or spending a good 20-30 minutes once or twice a week on them? I'm assuming, like all muscle, they need time to repair so doing hundreds of crunches every day would be pointless.

2) Presently when doing things like crunches I get a roaring pain after about 30-40 reps, but I also get back/neck pain too. The back pain can be bad, the neck pain is more of a cramp feeling - if that makes sense? Is this normal. Intuition would tell me my lower back is compensating but is this dangerous or perfectly normal for starting out?

3) I mentioned I'm on a cutting diet at the moment. I'm still training hard and getting large quantities of protein into my diet but carb intake is right down. Is it a waste of time trying to do abs stuff at this phase? I also still do have a bit of fat downstairs so I've wondered if this is actually making things seem worse than they actually are.

Would really appreciate some answers and/or general advice.
I wouldn't mind posting a picture if that will enable anyone to give specific advice on what I need to do.

Cheers
 
Soldato
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14,349
1) How often and how hard should you train your abs? I tend to do 3 weights sessions a week similar to Gordy's 3 day split. Am I better off doing some abs related stuff after each day training, or spending a good 20-30 minutes once or twice a week on them? I'm assuming, like all muscle, they need time to repair so doing hundreds of crunches every day would be pointless.

Correct. They will respond like any other muscle so anything from 4/6/8/10/12 reps with a heavy load or resistance.

2) Presently when doing things like crunches I get a roaring pain after about 30-40 reps, but I also get back/neck pain too. The back pain can be bad, the neck pain is more of a cramp feeling - if that makes sense? Is this normal. Intuition would tell me my lower back is compensating but is this dangerous or perfectly normal for starting out?

You correctly mention high reps being pointless but then seem to crank out 30/40 reps?! Most likely it's just a build up of lactate or cramp.

The abs respond the same as any other muscle. You wouldn't do huge rep sets for any other muscle (apart from legs which are massive in comparison) so why the same for abs?

3) I mentioned I'm on a cutting diet at the moment. I'm still training hard and getting large quantities of protein into my diet but carb intake is right down. Is it a waste of time trying to do abs stuff at this phase? I also still do have a bit of fat downstairs so I've wondered if this is actually making things seem worse than they actually are.

Ab visibility is down to low bodyfat at around 12/13% they start to show through nicely, I still have *some* visible abs at 15% but they become more defined the closer you get to 10%.

Train them with functional exercises planks (weighted if need be), jack knifes on a swiss ball, hanging leg raises etc. Then finish them off with crunches.

When doing planks I'll usually do two or 3 with 20 seconds rest in between. Keep it intense it should be a brief like any other workout. Spending 45/60 minutes on abs is silly it'd be like spending an hour training arms, totally pointless.

You should have course already be squatting, deadlifting and overhead pressing :cool:
 
Soldato
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Thanks for the advice. I'll try some of the exercises you mentioned, assuming around 15 minutes is ample. Again though, how often should I be training them. Twice a week enough?

As for squatting, dead-lifting etc. I always said I'd start off on dumbbells and build up basic muscle first before getting round to them but I still haven't. Probably time to make a start. I was never comfortable doing deadlifts due to back and I've always used dumbells to hit my legs pretty hard.
 
Soldato
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Thanks for the advice. I'll try some of the exercises you mentioned, assuming around 15 minutes is ample. Again though, how often should I be training them. Twice a week enough?

It'll depend on what other work you're doing. If you've using big core hitting compound then twice a week should be fine to isolate them.

As for squatting, dead-lifting etc. I always said I'd start off on dumbbells and build up basic muscle first before getting round to them but I still haven't. Probably time to make a start. I was never comfortable doing deadlifts due to back and I've always used dumbells to hit my legs pretty hard.

Read up on your form and watch tutorials on youtube. Can't recommend those lifts enough. Progress will suffer somewhat without them.
 
Man of Honour
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Do what Benny says.

Ideally you shouldn't really think of it as "abz" training. Getting a good aesthetic 6 pack is a result of having a strong core, of which your abs are a part.

You core's primary job is stability, so that should be your focus in terms of training it to get stronger. You should really be able to get most of the linear vertical stability from doing squat variations and deadlifts, but these are well supplemented by planks etc as Benny mentioned. You also need to consider rotational stability, so look into things like Palov presses.

All of my core strength had come from just doing deads/squats/over head work, never really done any direct training and will have decent abs when I finish cutting (i.e. when I get back to uni and there isn't so much food around). People who do loads of ab work are often wasting their time.
 
Soldato
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That settles it, I'll start looking at squats and deadlifts.

Am I right in assuming that, say I'm following the 3 day split mentioned above, I'd just slot deadlifts into my back day and squats into leg day?
 
Soldato
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Front squats if you want to feel like you're being kicked in the gut with each rep.

Yeah, though they are taxing lifts, especially deadlifts so if you don't feel fully recovered from the previous week give it a miss and make up for it the following week.
 
Associate
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In terms of feeling them for the next few days I'm a big dragon flag fan - be sure to do them on a decent bench though otherwise you risk ripping the padding off like I did the other week....
 
Soldato
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Not sure how you are following a similar split to gordys if you aren't doing any ofthe good exercises ;)

I don't follow the exact workout strictly. I tend to do a bit of everything that doesn't involve barbells. I've always much preferred to use dumbbells, occasionally do bench press but only for sake of comparison to my mates. Anyway I'm sure you've all said the secret to weight training is to mix things up which is what I'm in the process of doing now.

My routine has definitely worked with me, I've been thrilled with my gains albeit for some reason I seem to have been losing weight for the last 2 months despite a ridiculously high calorie diet and quite a few drunken uni nights out too. I'm just disappointed Summer is round the corner and I don't quit have that lean look I was going for.

Cheers for further advice and posts.
 
Associate
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lots of olympic lifters train abs a few times a week, i try to do it three times a week and is always part of circuits if involved in them.

saying that it probably doesn't help with six paxx, i just train it for for a strong core for sports.

ab wheel roll outs, crunchs with weight, and leg raises, knees to chest while hanging from a pull up bar or elbows on a dipping station is way i usually train them. Turkish get up, planks all other good ways.

defiantly don't agree with no direct exersises for them and just relying on heavy squats / deadlifts

things like medicine ball slams / sledgehammer are also good for core and a lot of fun to do.
 
Man of Honour
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defiantly don't agree with no direct exersises for them and just relying on heavy squats / deadlifts
Yes, I've been told not to recommend that as I'm a bit of a freak in this regard; by some combination of factors my core is unusually strong without specialised core work (not just some pulled out of my arse ego statement, I'm fairly messed up in other areas :p).

To clarify, I wasn't suggesting that people do no direct ab work, just that endless crunches and leg raises are quite ineffective.
 
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