Electric Cars coming in a year or two

[v0n]

They really aren't usles.
Again average commute is 8.5miles.
Average driver needs just 10 battery swaps a year.

That's just skewed statistic and playing with numbers. People don't invest £20,000 in a car just to do 8.5miles on 252 working days in a year. Last time I checked average mileage in uk was calculated around 12,000 a year, that's 6 folds your number, does that mean 60 battery swaps a year?

Also where you going to grow these bio fuels? Oh there's a big whole in that plan.

There is no hole. Anywhere you want. It's not like we grow anything else in this country at the moment and have no space. Modify crops genetically to grow in even more places if required. Making that happen is more viable than hope that someone somewhere will come up with highly efficient, cheap, portable energy storage in the next 10 years. Especially considering we don't need to write off existing cars and technologies.

Also read the post above with the tesla with a 300mile range.

$80,000+ limited run coupe is hardly an answer to commuter headaches.

 

[commited]

It'll be a long time until sales reps and truckers are in electric cars, but there is definitely something to be said for people who generally stay local (like my parents).

That Tesla saloon looks gorgeous! There is just something nagging at me about electric cars, I think it's the lack of engine noise. I wish they'd try and perfect Hydrogen instead.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

That Tesla saloon looks gorgeous! There is just something nagging at me about electric cars, I think it's the lack of engine noise. I wish they'd try and perfect Hydrogen instead.

Burning hydrogen isnt the answer so I guess you are refering to fuel cells?

Word on the street is that they are electric cars aswell. That make no noise.

 

[mufc802]

I can't wait for this, sick of breathing in awful fumes from cars.

 

[Glaucus]

That Tesla saloon looks gorgeous! There is just something nagging at me about electric cars, I think it's the lack of engine noise. I wish they'd try and perfect Hydrogen instead.

hydrogen has all the downsides of electric with few benefits.
The biggest issue being you have to create even more electricity than you would for battery cars, due to ineffencies, then there's storage and transporting it around everywhere, a complicated engine(I shall assume you meant that rather than fuel cells, due to noise)

 

[Glaucus]

That's just skewed statistic and playing with numbers. People don't invest £20,000 in a car just to do 8.5miles on 252 working days in a year. Last time I checked average mileage in uk was calculated around 12,000 a year, that's 6 folds your number, does that mean 60 battery swaps a year?

How is it skewed numbers? The figure wasn't made up of just commute. It's made up of the journeys and milage people actually do.
Of course they are expensive at the moment, they are not in mass production and they are new tech. What do you expect them to be, cheaper than iCE cars instantly? Why would they be that.


Really, you may want to go see what we grow in this country and what is already happening to food prices and predictions, due to bio fuels. Bio fuels are not a solution. Unless algea production can be made cheap and mass productions,

 

[Outcast]

I love my electric...Pushbike

My boss lets me charge it at work too..free.

I think overall price is the key as most people only do a few miles a day commuting to workplace. 80 miles range is more than adequate for most.

 

[lordrobs]

I wonder if all of these independent charging companies are going to be the success or failure of electric cars. It seems very... sporadic. A case of "Quick lets jump on the band wagon before everyone else" but the problem being that dozens of companies have thought the same thing at the same time.

We have two electric charging points at our workplace (annoyingly put where I always used to park ), never been used

I honestly think that electric and plug in hybrid is the medium term answer. The latter I'd be happy to own as soon as they become affordable to me so long as they suit my requirements.

 

[Glaucus]

Why does it matter, we have lots of petrol stations owned by different companies. They all sale the same thing and the plugs are more or less standard or cars come with adapters.

So no-ones used the two plugs at your work. Is that a surprise, there's not many electric cars about and until there's enough infrastructure that isn't going to change significantly.

 

[Glaucus]

and needs dedicated driveway or guaranteed parking spot to be plugged in .

or you wireless charging and a system which knows what car is plugged in.

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/60712

A test of wire-free charging technology for electric vehicles is to begin in Berlin in June, German utility firm Siemens confirmed last week.

The trial will see several electric cars in the German capital fitted with inductive coils capable of receiving energy wirelessly from transmitters placed under the ground, technology which has been jointly developed by Siemens and BMW.

Although it's unclear which vehicles will be used in the trial, there are several prototypes of the BMW ActiveE, an all-electric version of the 1 Series, currently undergoing trials in Berlin.

]

 

[lordrobs]

Why does it matter, we have lots of petrol stations owned by different companies. They all sale the same thing and the plugs are more or less standard or cars come with adapters.

So no-ones used the two plugs at your work. Is that a surprise, there's not many electric cars about and until there's enough infrastructure that isn't going to change significantly.

I'm not saying it will matter, just asking the question. The difference is that petrol goes in a tanker to be transported. Charging stations will need an infrastructure putting in place and I imagine that would be easier with a few key players rather than every Tom, Dick and Harry with their take on the charging station.

I guess your second point is also my point. Ours were put in FOC as the company involved with rolling them out is a tenant here but who is going to want to make the financial investment when there is no one using them? Sure it is a chicken and egg situation but these are hard times, I wouldn't want to be the one suggesting putting in a load of white elephants outside that sit unused for years just to help the cause.

 

[lordrobs]

or you wireless charging and a system which knows what car is plugged in.

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/60712

Isn't inductive charging hugely inefficient?

 

[Glaucus]

.

I guess your second point is also my point. Ours were put in FOC as the company involved with rolling them out is a tenant here but who is going to want to make the financial investment when there is no one using them? Sure it is a chicken and egg situation but these are hard times, I wouldn't want to be the one suggesting putting in a load of white elephants outside that sit unused for years just to help the cause.

that's why there are grants, incentives and probably tax breaks. Which is why thousands are being installed. So it breaks the chicken and egg situation.

Induction charging for cars isn't horrendous. Allthough can't see efficiency figures I know it's on wiki some where. Guess is the bigger the loops the better efficiency and solves the problem of what to do where normal sockets aren't suitable.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

I think once these proper electric cars take off ( not the Prius **** or that car with one seat that costs £20,000 ) theres going be no stopping them.

Running out of Lithium will stop 'em pretty quick!

 

[Jonny69]

Lol. Those two American researchers who posted in Scientific American (Jacobson and Delucchi?) thought we would if the whole world ran EVERYTHING on lithium batteries but the British Geological Survey are adamant that there's plenty of lithium if we really want it that much

 

[Glaucus]

Running out of Lithium will stop 'em pretty quick!

There's more than enough lithium for Over 4billion cars and there isn't even 1billion passenger cars. 806,000 as of 2007.
Should pay less attention to BS rubbish that is dervived from nothing but a hatred of electric cars.


Also how about this for range if it turns out to be true
http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/thi...ld-lead-to-732-mile-electric-car-battery/7854

, Japanese researchers at Sumitomo Electric have come up with a breakthrough that could triple the energy capacity of lithium-ion batteries, and in effect make it a very real possibility. It’s called Aluminum-Celmet, a 98 percent porous material that, when used in place of a standard aluminum foil anode, allows for electric car batteries to be packed with a lot more lithium.

Aluminum-Celmet is similar to nickel Celmet, a material that can be found in nickel-cadmium and nickel-metal hydride batteries. Both are produced using a process that involves applying an electro conductive coating to plastic foam, followed by nickel plating. The resulting material then undergoes heat treatment to remove the plastic foam, leaving behind something resembling a mesh fabric, but in metallic form. However, the difference is that Aluminum-Celmet is lighter, has better electrical conductivity and the kind of corrosion resistance necessary to hold up to the rigors that electric cars are put through each day.

The degree in which Celmet anodes may improve battery capacity is exponential. According to a company statement, the material could “increase battery capacity 1.5 to 3 times. Alternatively, with no change in capacity, battery volume can be reduced to one-third to two-thirds. These changes afford such benefits as reduced footprint of home-use storage batteries for power generated by solar and other natural sources, as well as by fuel cells.”

 

[rypt]

But don't you think as EV Market increases the grid will be updated as well.

By 2050 we have to be almost total off fossil fuels.

I believe the next milestone is 2020,
And happens to be 20% renewable energy, 20% Reduction in carbon release and 20% energy reduction.
Eu is on target for the first two but not the last. But they have been having talks and stuff and expect more policies similar to the stopping the sale of normal lightbulbs

20% energy reduction coming from fossil fuels, or 20% reduction in total energy use?

If it is total energy use it is stupid as we can easily power most things via nuclear

 

[Glaucus]

20% energy reduction coming from fossil fuels, or 20% reduction in total energy use?

If it is total energy use it is stupid as we can easily power most things via nuclear

20% energy reduction, iirc below 2008 levels (national grid only I think), so nothing to do with fossil fuels.

Will go and try and find a link.

Less power requirement, means less generation and cost savings. Tbh it should be so hard. We are so in efficient in so many areas. It's just a lack to change, partly due to cost.

Sorry it's 20% bellow the 2007 projections.
Bit more info here if you can be bothered.
http://www.roadmap2050.eu/attachments/files/2EnergySavings2020-ExecutiveSummary.pdf

And the carbon reductions % are %reductions below 1990 levels. So in 2050 85-90% reduction below 1990 emissions.

Nice diagram of where we are and projection to 2020 and how bad we are failing and why people are calling for so many more policies to be implemented.

The renewables and co2 reduction however we are on course to meet.

 

[rypt]

Yes, but there is a difference between forcing a 20% cut and forcing an efficiency change.

We don't have to cut the total use as we can easily power things via nuclear

 

[Glaucus]

Yes, but there is a difference between forcing a 20% cut and forcing an efficiency change.

We don't have to cut the total use as we can easily power things via nuclear

Except we arent building them and why be so in efficient.
Add diagram which help explain.

And it is a total energy cut below 1990 levels.
Basically the energy reduction wasn't anywhere near 20% so it is a total cut.