Qantas is grounding its entire fleet =/

[drunkenmaster]

Oopsie, really need to look up the rents flight details but they flew out for an Aussie trip last night, flight times wise I'm not even sure I know when they are due to land in Australia.

I think they should be fine getting to Australia as they were going BA, but they could theoretically flown in to Hong Kong or something then Quantas ground their fleet at that time and they get stuck there.

AS it is they were flying into Aussie then had two more internal flights to get to where they were going, so they still might be screwed. Not the best news to land in Australia too.

 

[Meridian]

Oh what a surprise, Meridian posting another manager-hate rant...

It's such a shame your position is in complete contrast to the market position that recognises the relative value of managers against much more easily replaced unskilled staff...

Er - who sets the market? That would be the managers. The expression I'm looking for would be "leapfrog". As is common, I have a questions: why is the best incentive to managers to offer to pay them more, but the best incentive to workers to threaten to pay them less? And where's the cuttoff? What rank do you have to be before stick becomes carrot? And finally, what is so different between workers and managers that they have to have different incentives?

And again: I don't hate managers, but unlike you I understand when they are needed. And more importantly, when they are not. And I don't think managers are automatically right because of their job title, as you seem to. I can't actually think of anyone that would apply to, including the workers.


M

 

[sammo62]

You guys realise this is a lock out right? Not a strike. Everyone seems to be blaming the union.

 

[cheets64]

Always makes me laugh when a CEO gets a job well done gets a massive bonus or massive pay rise, lower level worker gets a pat on the back and maybe a voucher or bottle of wine.

And when they ruin a company, example RBS, they get a massive payout, can keep their pension while thousands of people lose their job.

Fred Goodwin

On October 11, 2008, Goodwin officially announced his resignation as Chief Executive and an early retirement, effective from January 31, 2009 - a month before RBS announced that its 2008 loss totalled £24.1bn, the largest annual loss in UK corporate history.[4] Following the February 2009 disclosure of his approximately £700,000 per year pension award from RBS he was the subject of widespread public, political and media criticism.

Even 2 years later RBS is suffering from his decisions

Separately, Chris Kyle, chief financial officer of RBS’ investment banking unit, has notified staff that the “end-of-year party subsidisation” at the division will be stopped, meaning a cancellation of office-sponsored Christmas parties.

I dont hate people in power but I dont think its fair for people to be at the mercy of people like that.

 

[Sankari]

Qantas is taking a massive amount of grief from passengers today, not least because they have made little effort to offer advice or assistance of any kind. Public mood is heavily against the company.

Furious passengers in major cities around the world have vowed never to fly with Qantas again after being left stranded by the airline's unprecedented grounding.

Disgruntled travellers in London, New York, Bangkok, Singapore, Hong Kong, Frankfurt and countless other cities are desperately trying to make alternative arrangements after Qantas grounded its entire fleet of planes, leaving 80,000 passengers worldwide in limbo.

...

Hundreds of passengers are stranded at the world's busiest international airport, Heathrow, after eight flights were cancelled this weekend.

QF32 was the first of three flights due out of Heathrow on Saturday (local time), but another two in Frankfurt are also on hold.

About 1,500 travellers at Heathrow's Terminal 3 are scrambling to find alternative flights home or accommodation, and say Qantas is providing very little help

(Source).

I think this is the first time in history that an Australian airline has grounded its entire fleet.

 

[LizardKing]

I imagine quite a few corporations will be watching with intent of the outcome of this fiasco!

 

[dalin80]

You guys realise this is a lock out right? Not a strike. Everyone seems to be blaming the union.

If the unions are content to strike which also heavily damages the company they are demanding more from then the company are well within their rights to tell the strikers to go jump.

Its like the BA strikes, poor financials cause cutbacks, idiots go on strike causing damage to the company possibly requiring more cutbacks.

glad to see a company not bending over for the unions.

 

[sammo62]

If the unions are content to strike which also heavily damages the company they are demanding more from then the company are well within their rights to tell the strikers to go jump.

Its like the BA strikes, poor financials cause cutbacks, idiots go on strike causing damage to the company possibly requiring more cutbacks.

glad to see a company not bending over for the unions.

But Qantas really don't have poor financials - they are making decent profits at the moment. If they were losing money I might agree that change was a harsh reality, but in this situation it's just screwing workers to grease the palms of a few shareholders. Quite frankly the CEO has behaved like a spoilt brat.

 

[cheets64]

If the unions are content to strike which also heavily damages the company they are demanding more from then the company are well within their rights to tell the strikers to go jump.

Its like the BA strikes, poor financials cause cutbacks, idiots go on strike causing damage to the company possibly requiring more cutbacks.

glad to see a company not bending over for the unions.

Didnt BA ask staff to work for free

Does working for free pay for food?

 

[Zip]

If the unions are content to strike which also heavily damages the company they are demanding more from then the company are well within their rights to tell the strikers to go jump.

Its like the BA strikes, poor financials cause cutbacks, idiots go on strike causing damage to the company possibly requiring more cutbacks.

glad to see a company not bending over for the unions.

AFAIK the Unions were only threatening to strike and there was no full on Strike.
The CEO of Qantas is an over paid ****.

Qantas was making a big profit as it is and hes gone and closed down regional centres and wants to move jobs off shore. Of course the Union is ****ed.

The only reason you would fly Qantas is if you flew buisness class, because they are so over priced!
While every one was dropping the price on Economy flights Qantas kept rising theres! The Greedy ****s.
I hope the CEO gets shafted

 

[Sankari]

If the unions are content to strike which also heavily damages the company they are demanding more from then the company are well within their rights to tell the strikers to go jump.

Its like the BA strikes, poor financials cause cutbacks, idiots go on strike causing damage to the company possibly requiring more cutbacks.

glad to see a company not bending over for the unions.

But the unions aren't striking. There has been no strike. Joyce's over-reaction is absurd.

 

[StriderX]

The thing here to note is that Qantas dont seem to care about the Consumer, which is all that matters.

They shall feel the hurt if they ever do start again.

Ill be taking note of this if i ever do decide to fly, tut tut tut Qantas.

 

[LordSplodge]

I never said the unions have never done anything good, but their time has ended in my eyes and they are basically used as a method of increasing the wage across a sector, look at the tube drivers for example?

KaHn

So you think the common worker no longer needs protection then? I mean it isn't like employees or the Government will take the **** in pay and working conditions during these economic times is it?

It's all very well rolling out the tired Tube drivers example but in reality, especially in the Public Sector the Unions do a stalwart job of protecting those on the bottom end of the pay scale. Without them they'd become even more exploited. Unfortunately the Unions are the lesser evil, better to have them and the issues they bring than to have greedy corporations and penny pinching Governments in charge.

As for Quantas; sounds like childish behaviour to me. It's like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Dont get why people dont look up the facts before posting drivel but then it is GD I suppose

"Qantas has a 65% share of the domestic Australian market, but has been making heavy losses on its international flights."

"The airline - the world's 10th largest - has been hit by a series of costly strikes and other industrial action, which the company said was costing A$15m ($16m) a week."

"The restructuring is expected to mean the loss of 1,000 jobs from its 35,000-strong workforce."

"Wage costs are higher than the industry standard for ground and cabin crew staff, servicing contracts expensive and pension entitlements unaffordable in the long run."

"At the heart of the dispute are concerns about pay and job security along with cost-cutting and the subcontracting of work overseas as Qantas looks to set up new airlines in Asia and sack hundreds of staff to revive its sagging international fortunes."

So basically Quantas is trying to do what every other worldwide company is trying to do which is to ensure survival in times of economic woe. They are loss making and uncompetative due to overly high costs

Union response, demand job security, demands on pay....

Looks just like the UK had to put up with over approx 30 years ago when crazy union powers sought to destroy the UK manufacturing by squeezing every penny from the sector and they wondered why they became so uncompetitive on the world stage.

My personal view is that any companies that require significant union involvment in the area of pay are doomed. Ive worked at one and saw exactly the same long term destruction of a company by union demands. It employed 1300 people in the UK when I worked there, about 1100 6 years later when I left, a few years ago it shut down completely as it was just too expensive to run on the world stage. Apart from jobs that cannot be sent elsewhere (eg tube/bus drivers where unions know they hold the public over a barrel) union activity just hurts long term ability to compete worldwide.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

And as far as unions being required for the working mans conditions there are plenty of EU people dreaming up this and that for the unions to be worried about it.

The majority of the union coverage I see and read about now seems to be back in the squeezing an easier time for the workers, and focussed on pay. Back to the good old days of not giving a **** about long term ability to compete and back to short term squeezing every penny.

 

[Zip]

"Qantas has a 65% share of the domestic Australian market, but has been making heavy losses on its international flights."

Maybe they should take a look at there pricing compared to other Airlines before thinking about sending work overseas. The others offer better Service for better prices.
Plus they also made something like $500m profit this year anyway so they arnt losing too much.

The CEO is a Disgrace and has messed with the wrong country to pull a stunt like this. Its a country that will back the underdogs and the little people and it wouldnt surprise me if he has just become the most despised person in Australia.

They could have at least flown everyone home before doing this stunt rather then stranding everyone.

 

[RDM]

Unions do some good work.

Can't help but think this is all a bit childish, Union demands X Y Z and then company takes the "WELL FINE WE'LL NOT DO ANYTHING LA LA LA"

Surely if workers are allowed to withdraw labour if they think the company is being unreasonable it should be allowed on the other side too?

I think what Qantas are doing is a bit stupid, but if workers have the right to strike then management should have the right to close down the business.

 

[Floogie]

So basically Quantas is trying to do what every other worldwide company is trying to do which is to ensure survival in times of economic woe. They are loss making and uncompetative due to overly high costs

Union response, demand job security, demands on pay....

It's not a matter of survival, its a matter of achieving higher profits through competitiveness. Qantas doubled its profits in 2011 over 2010 and would have reaped approximately $250m more if it were not for the natural disasters on its international routes. Therefore as there is plenty of headroom, why don't the lazy Qantas management seek to look at their pricing strategy, product differentiation or the other avenues open to them instead of hacking the wage bill first?

Looks just like the UK had to put up with over approx 30 years ago when crazy union powers sought to destroy the UK manufacturing by squeezing every penny from the sector and they wondered why they became so uncompetitive on the world stage.

My personal view is that any companies that require significant union involvment in the area of pay are doomed. Ive worked at one and saw exactly the same long term destruction of a company by union demands. It employed 1300 people in the UK when I worked there, about 1100 6 years later when I left, a few years ago it shut down completely as it was just too expensive to run on the world stage. Apart from jobs that cannot be sent elsewhere (eg tube/bus drivers where unions know they hold the public over a barrel) union activity just hurts long term ability to compete worldwide.

For low-tech manufacturing and heavy industry to survive in this country then the hourly wage would have to drop to that similar to China or India plus prospective transport costs. Do you really think that is workable to have people on a quid or two an hour? Unions didn't kill these industries, free-trade did, so please get the target of your displeasure correct in future.

 

[semi-pro waster]

They could have at least flown everyone home before doing this stunt rather then stranding everyone.

How would they do that though? Inform everyone that in XX weeks we're going to be shutting down and if you want us to fly you back then you've got to make sure you do so within that time?

I'd agree that Quantas could probably have handled it better but some of the value in the action must come from the suddeness of it and the lack of options to make contingency plans.

Surely if workers are allowed to withdraw labour if they think the company is being unreasonable it should be allowed on the other side too?

I think what Qantas are doing is a bit stupid, but if workers have the right to strike then management should have the right to close down the business.

There is a certain disparity in terms of the bargaining positions though, if workers wish to remove their labour and have it make enough of an impact to be noticed then they've usually got to organise into a mass strike. It's also worth bearing in mind that when striking the workers are almost always forgoing pay for that period so it is an action on their part that will also cost them financially as well as the company - the hope is, of course, that ultimately it will prove more rewarding.

Is Quantas paying staff while it has closed down? If not then it's essentially a unilateral decision to cost the staff money rather than a collective acceptance that this course of action will cost themselves money.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Unions didn't kill these industries, free-trade did, so please get the target of your displeasure correct in future.

Duh

Free trade is only a problem when you have become uncompetative.

Quantas is a perfect example of how unions do not care about that, they are in it for short term only. Quantas already have uncompetative costs, rather than agreeing to reform and accepting some change they are upto their normal tactics of trying to stop change.
Thats fine, but dont complain when long term Quantas goes out of business, and I mean the international business not te domestic.

Their international business is uncompetative, their domestic of which they hold 65% of the market isn't. Probably purely because they do hold 65% of the market, they are not really competing hard.

So they make their internationl competative or they die a slow long agonising death.

If your competators are more efficient than you, you are screwed long term if you do not change that position. The only way to beat that scenario is things like government protectionism, or some way to clearly differentiate your product to create actual or perceived value for money.

Quantas is a premium brand that competes with the likes of BA and Virgin in the international market.