Asus VG278H and Samsung S27A950D comparison

[PCM2]

Give this ICC profile a whirl from my S27A950 review sample. As per the filename it is designed to be used with the monitor set to 'GroupView' and everything else default (50 R,G,B and 75 contrast) except for brightness, at 45. Each individual unit will differ slightly with colour balance so if things look clearly wrong then you may need to adjust the colour balance a little. It shouldn't take much and hopefully you won't even need to adjust anything as it will hopefully look pleasing straight off.

 

[skuko]

ok, will test out as soon as i get home (damn you, i am itching to get home now )

 

[PCM2]

Haha. So that's 2 people eager to get home to their Samsungs thanks to me. I should work for them .

 

[Frenzy]

Ok so these are the settings I had

Icc: Samsung Natural Colour - SMS27A950D.icm
Picture:

Brightness 18
Contrast 81
Sharpness 60
Response time fastest
HDMI Black Level Low

Magic:

Angle off
Bright Custom
Colour off

Colour:

Red 43
Green 32
blue 53
Tone Custom
Gamma Mode 3

Now I have

Icc: PCMs' Group View - Samsung-SA950-GroupView-50RGB.icm
Picture:

Brightness 45
Contrast 75
Sharpness 60
Response time fastest
HDMI Black Level Normal

Magic:

Angle Group View
Bright Unselectable
Colour Unselectable

Colour:

Red 50
Green 50
blue 50
Tone Unselectable
Gamma Unselectable

The original settings had very vivid colours that popped out of the screen, dark areas couldn't be seen very well in games unless using Normal HDMI Black Level. Detail was also lost unless using that setting. Same was true for films, black areas would just be black (dark shadows).

The new settings don't appear to be as vivid and the colours do not pop out anymore. Everything however does look more natural. My fear about having HBL (HDMI Black Level) at normal is that everything would look washed out. It does It is as though I'm seeing the screen through a plastic dull sheet.

On the original settings I found myself preferring Low HBL. On the new settings when going through various windows and switching the HBL to low and normal I find myself preferring normal as I can see more details in bright and dark areas. Putting it on low seems to remove details from the bright aswell as dark areas. I don't know if the bright areas losing detail is a new issue to do with the new settings or if that was the case before and I just did not notice it.

I tried a couple of films and they look incredibly washed out on the new settings unless I change HBL to low. This was the case with the original settings.

Not sure what to do now although the new settings for general use are growing on me. If only I had two of these monitors side by side.
I'll run through my original settings again and see what it looks like. I may stick with the new settings.

Edit: Actually I think I'll just keep the new settings and go low on HBL when watchign films etc. Getting used to the washed out effect, it's almost gone.

 

[PCM2]

And what about if you disable the ICC profiles completely (and still use the GroupView) setting. Things certainly shouldn't look anywhere near washed out. This may have something to do with the GPU driver settings? On my Radeon 6950 setting HDMI Black Level to 'low' over DVI produces inferior vibrancy and general contrast to using MagicAngle 'Group View'. In our testing the colour temperature, gamma and shade variety was all vastly improved using this setting, too.

 

[Frenzy]

I'll do that in a bit better get the food out the oven before it burns

 

[Frenzy]

This is how I'm using the ICM profiles, should I just choose to remove them to disable them completely?

 

[PCM2]

If you untick the 'Use my settings for the device' checkbox it should disable the default ICC profile and restore things to Windows defaults. There are also some odd setting in Nvidia Forceware to look out for but I can't remember off-hand exactly what they are. There are a couple to do with 'colour formats' and the like and they are slightly different depending on if you are using DVI or HDMI - so I can't remember where you would find them. There is one that you sometimes need to switch from 'Auto' to 'Desktop Programs' and there is another to do with colour format. Also make sure everything on the 'Digital Vibrancy' page and all that is set to default.

 

[skuko]

i have set the monitor up according to your recommendations PCM2

i have also set my DELL U2311H up with the following settings as seen here:

Flatpanelshd.com U2311H review

Brightness:	30
Contrast:	75
Input Color Format:	RGB
Mode Selection:	Graphics
Sharpness:	50
Dynamic Contrast:	Off
Response time:	Overdrive
RGB:	Custom
• R:	99
• G:	95
• B:	98

they look COMPLETELY different and i have to say the samsung is vastly inferior in terms of colours. i am looking at this forum page at the moment on both monitors comparing the colours, the are 2 completely different shades of blue, at least to my eye. i will try to take a photo of them side by side in a completely dark room without flash or anything to see if the colour difference can be seen from the photo.

edit: i mean 6 different shades, since the forum page has 3 different blues, but you know what i mean. i just read your last reply, gonna look in the areas you mentioned.

 

[PCM2]

You don't have an Nvidia GPU as well do you? The Samsung monitors I tested responded very well to calibration (including using the profile linked to) and displayed pretty accurate colours within the centre of the screen on a Radeon 6950. The settings used in the review produced an image that was pleasing to both the eye and the colorimeter. I must stress again that the glossy screen surface of the Samsungs will make colours appear different to a high-haze surface - it's hard to describe but they will appear richer, 'cleaner' and more vibrant even if you're comparing calibrated screens. This was alluded to in my previous posts. Unfortunately I can't make recommendations that will work with all GPUs and it is difficult to account for inter-unit variation. I also don't think your U2311H, uncalibrated, is a very good benchmark to test against. I have calibrated dozens of U2311Hs for various offices and the differences made to the image pre and post calibration are quite profound. So are the differences between individual units - particularly when it comes to whitepoint and overall colour balance. Look at the dE values in the Flatpanels HD review for blue before they apply an ICC profile - which seems to be the colour you're mainly focussing on looking different here. The bar is massive - that's not good. This also reflects what I have seen in my testing with the U2311H on some (but not all units). Compare this 'blue error' to those in the TFT Central review for their U2311H sample, using a very similar calibration procedure.

But it does seem there are some differences here with the Samsung that may be down in part to the GPU. Unfortunately I no longer run any Nvidia test systems so it's difficult to say - and I have only used one S27A750D and one S27A950D so can't account for inter-unit variation.

Edit: You told me in an email you have an Nvidia GTX 580. As above look for any 'colour channel' and suchlike settings and anything that says 'Auto' and can be changed to 'Desktop programs'. I wish I could be of more help but I'm going blind as I don't have an Nvidia GPU with me at the moment. If it really bugs you how different things look on the desktop and between your monitors when viewing websites then I would suggest investing in a relatively cheap colorimeter. Even something simple like a Spyder3 Pro (or cheaper - Pantone Huey Pro) will give you a decent calibration profile and help you better match your monitors (although there will, naturally, be a different visual feel due to screen surface). This will save you a lot of hassle in the long-run and will stop you having to return another monitor which you are otherwise very happy with. From what you said in the original post and from email I have no doubt you would be happier with the properly calibrated Samsung than a phantom-calibrated 60Hz IPS monitor - you clearly notice a big difference in responsiveness which no colorimeter can help with.

 

[skuko]

yes i do have a GTX580

 

[Frenzy]

Ok if I change any of the vibrancy etc in the panel I start to lose colour detail from 30-32 straight away http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/contrast.php
So I've left that at default.





Changing the video colour settings dynamic range from limited to full fixes the bright videos issue. Seems to have the same effect as choosing low on hdmi black.




Btw I really do appreciate your help as I'm sure you have better things to do!
Edit, I'm just going to stick to the new settings I'm sure I'll get used to them and the settings I had before were probably over the top.
Edit2, The more I use these settings the more I like them

 

[PCM2]

As I say in my uber edit (yeah - I know, a bit OTT) I wish I could be of more help. I very nearly bought an Nvidia GTX 570 for my main system which would give me an Nvidia reference to work with but alas .

 

[skuko]

darn, the camera cannot catch the colour difference

from what i can see, the samsung compared to the dell has washed out colours. i wish i knew if/how this can be adjusted. i had 2 other people looked at both screens without me saying anything and they both said the same thing. no photo experts or anything, but at least i know i'm not going crazy here, other people can see it too lolz

going to see if i can get adjusted to it somehow or return it. i don't know

 

[PCM2]

Yeah I wish I knew what was going on there. I'm sure you're not going crazy at all. As I said in the review I had the SA750 running alongside various monitors at different times - including the Dell U2312HM. If anything the Samsung made the Dell look washed out on my system using those settings. It matched the vibrancy of the Apple Cinema Display which as anybody will tell you is rather impressive - and washed out would be the very last words you'd use to describe the image. I always get ordinary folk (friends, family etc.) to give their unbiased impressions on the monitors once they're set up as well as my colleagues with a bit more knowledge. All were impressed by how rich and full the image produced by the Samsung monitors were - impressions which faired favourably to the matte IPS panel monitors beside. The SA950 was a touch weaker when it came to contrast but the colours again looked nice and vibrant and very far from washed out. The peripheral sections were a bit weaker due to the excess backlight bleed-through and if this is particularly extensive on your unit then I could see this affecting the overall image. I tested on the Radeon 6950 over DisplayPort, HDMI (and DVI as well for the S27A950).

As far as trying other settings which may work better for your setup you could try disabling MagicAngle and changing 'Gamma' to 'Mode 3'. You may need to adjust the contrast slightly from this base - the luminance should also be raised so you may want to lower the brightness a little. On our setup this gave a gamma that was a too low and a general washed out look compared to 'GroupView'. Who knows though, may work better for you. I would also try experimenting with different brightness settings - I'm sure you've already done that one. And disable all ICC profiles when fiddling about with this if you haven't already (untick the 'use my settings for the device' checkbox .)

I would certainly recommend a cheap colorimeter as per the previous post. I know this is a bit of a problem as it wouldn't arrive before your DSR window expired. And again I can't say for certain that all S27A950Ds will react in the same way to the GroupView settings. I suppose you could initiate the DSR if the retailer wants you to return it then get the colorimeter. You don't have to follow through with the DSR if you change your mind once you've calibrated it properly but that avenue would be open to you. And the colorimeter is very useful for the IPS panel monitors in particular - which you may feel more comfortable with.

@ Frenzy. Glad they are growing on you. I often find once I change from some settings I'm used to it is a bit shocking at first and I try to pick out flaws - but once you get used to them you will have an even stronger sensation like that going back the other way.

 

[Frenzy]

Which cheap colorimeter would you recommend for my own calibrations?

 

[PCM2]

How cheap is cheap? If you want to get the best from it for games and any such application that ignores/misinterprets ICC profiles I would look for a model which helps you set up the whitepoint (balance the colour channels) on the monitor itself. The Spyder3 Pro or Elite is a good one for this but they generally cost £120-£130. The Pantone Huey Pro I believe is around £60 at the moment and will give you a good profile. It likes to do things on the graphics card LUT (creating ICC profiles and suchlike) rather than helping you adjust the monitor. This works well on the desktop and any other colour-managed applications that will use the profile properly. The downside is that games tend not to like this and you can introduce gradation (banding issues), reduce colour range and contrast if a lot of work needs to be done. I generally suggest it is best to just set up the monitor to a level that is pleasing to your eye unless you are doing colour-critical work. It can be nice to set up the white point and gamma optimally (which the likes of the Spyder 3 will help with) but do much else and you start to sacrifice things without necessarily gaining a better looking image in games. With a TN panel there is variation in gamma and colour across and particularly up and down the screen - a colorimeter only focusses on a small section in the centre of the screen. I would ask yourself whether it is really worth it.

I advised one for skuko (although I don't think he's read that post) because he is perhaps underestimating the shortcomings of TN panels (related to viewing angle), the differences between units and perhaps GPUs and also overestimating the out-of-box U2311H performance. But I appreciate it can be very difficult to articulate what it is you are seeing on a monitor and it could be that for whatever reason things really are looking 'washed out' for him. Far be it from me to question what exactly he is seeing but it certainly wasn't the case on my system and for the Samsung units I tested .

 

[clippa]

Just for balance, I've had both these monitors and the asus blows the samsung out of the water in every regard.

Every 120hz panel I've owned has had very high gamma for whatever reason, maybe it's a flaw with the technology. I've had to use monitor calibration wizard to lower the gamma for them all.

The asus has been by far and away the best of the bunch. It's not perfect but I've had pretty much every 120hz panel going and it's the only one I've kept

 

[redknight333]

I've jumped in and got myself one of those Asus VG278H and i'm very impressed, only had it 2 days now, and its working great. It's like having a new set of eyes, well it should be really because my old monitor is a philips 17" (it is a full screen monitor not wide and still working great), all i need to do is upgrade pc that is getting on a bit now, still using a q6600, but i'm waiting a bit longer for the new set of video cards to come out from nvidia.

 

[B1gbeard]

I've had a 750 for a couple of weeks now next to my ASUS and unless its for 3D Vision, I'm using the Samsung.

I can't quite explain it unless the ASUS has AG coating, but for general desktop work the whites and greys have quite a shimmer to them, similar to the effect you see with extensive AG coating. The Samsung on the other hand has a cleaner more vibrant picture on the desktop in comparison. This extends to games as well.

I can't say my eyes would notice the difference in response times and what not but the 120hz in 2D appears just as good on both monitors to me.

For 3D the ASUS wins hands down imo although I guess that is mainly due to Nvidia's 3D Vision 2.