Over 370,000 immigrants are on benefits

[krooton]

.I feel a very strong sense of loyality to this country and that is the basis of my patriotism.

The word patriotism and patriot are so widely misuesed that it is hardly surprising people have this skewed idea of what it actually means to some people.

Am I idiotic for being patriotic?

Whole you be more loyal to another British person than a foreigner, even if the British person was quite a **** and the foreigner was a wonderful chap?

Have pride, loyalty, whatever based on people, their actions and achievements, not because you share a geographical location.

 

[Castiel]

This is a much better articulation of my thoughts. National pride is very much based on arbitrary borders and makes no sense to say "I'm proud of this because it happened within x amount of miles from me.

I would agree........if you base your patriotism or national pride simply on arbitrary borders then that is meaningless....if however your patriotism is based on a shared identity and a share moral and cultural background....along with a loyality to what your nation stands for in that sense then that is not meanigless...

Misplaced patriotism can be foolish...but patriotism in itself where justified by the individual is not.

In my opinion.

 

[anything I don't mind]

I can't find any employment or tax demographics for the uk. For some reason these are not made available. I have searched the statistics website.

 

[JRS]

Well we send little jimmy too school before long he is praying to allah and wearing silly hats or asking why we don't eat more curry for breakfast. Maybe he gets to his teens and refuses to move out, siting his indian friends all live in the same house together, why can't we. Culture shock, little jimmy, you are not indian, you are british, that means we don't all share the same house.

What drug are you on, and why hasn't it been banned as hazardous to braincells yet?

 

[arctine]

Yes. Misplaced pride. Unless you have a direct link to said athlete, I don't see how you have the right to be proud of their achievements.

2 people one mile apart, over the border between 2 countries. One person is allow to be proud of something that someone in one country achieves, but the other is not because they were a half a mile too far away? Arbitrary.

Football teams are an even weirder subset of misplaced pride, given you don't even need to live in the locality of a team to be a supporter and proud of them.

I'm not going to argue with you. Bear in mind the only reason for this is you're entitled to an opinion. That's all what your saying is by the way, an opinion on what people should be proud of. Definitely not fact and almost definitely considered wrong to the majority of people.

 

[krooton]

I would agree........if you base your patriotism or national pride simply on arbitrary borders then that is meaningless....if however your patriotism is based on a shared identity and a share moral and cultural background....along with a loyality to what your nation stands for in that sense then that is not meanigless...

Misplaced patriotism can be foolish...but patriotism in itself where justified by the individual is not.

In my opinion.

I agree, but feel that the majority of people who are vocal patriots aren't positive patriots. Textbook definitions of words don't also match the reality of them.

 

[Castiel]

Whole you be more loyal to another British person than a foreigner, even if the British person was quite a **** and the foreigner was a wonderful chap?

Have pride, loyalty, whatever based on people, their actions and achievements, not because you share a geographical location.

That depends on what you mean....would I compromise the ideals of what I and my country stand for by acting contrary to those ideals in the defence of an idividual simply because of his nationality...no, because then that would be acting contrary to the reasons why I feel patriotism in the first place....a country that deserves my loyality also wouldn't demand such an act from me either.

 

[Tefal]

It very much depends on the context of "defending that ideal". I have no idea where you served, but for example serving in Afghanistan isn't at all defending the ideals of this country.

indeed. I say we invade India, get back to our traditions!

 

[Castiel]

I agree, but feel that the majority of people who are vocal patriots aren't positive patriots. Textbook definitions of words don't also match the reality of them.

Quite...which is why I questioned the hijacking of nationalism and patriotism by the BNP etc at the very outset.

It is this misconception and misdirection that we should be seeking to eliminate, not patriotism itself.....

 

[Castiel]

indeed. I say we invade India, get back to our traditions!

Patriotism is not jingoism....

 

[krooton]

I'm not going to argue with you. Bear in mind the only reason for this is you're entitled to an opinion. That's all what your saying is by the way, an opinion on what people should be proud of. Definitely not fact and almost definitely considered wrong to the majority of people.

That's the way of the internet and opinions I guess, forums would dull if it weren't the case.

I just fail to see how locality should have a bearing on pride. I'm not proud of my upstairs neighbour's kid if they get straight As, and they are pretty much the closest geographical achiever of anything to me apart from my gf.

Should people living in Newcastle be more proud of the achievements of Scottish people than those of Londoners? The are much closer to them, but then that border that a bunch of people defined hundreds of years ago says no.

 

[anything I don't mind]

Of course because only castiel can define patriotism and nationalism appropriately.

 

[krooton]

That depends on what you mean....would I compromise the ideals of what I and my country stand for by acting contrary to those ideals in the defence of an idividual simply because of his nationality...no, because then that would be acting contrary to the reasons why I feel patriotism in the first place....a country that deserves my loyality also wouldn't demand such an act from me either.

So if there was another country that shared all or the majority of the positive aspects and culture of the UK, would you feel patriotic about it as well?

 

[Castiel]

Of course I did, but it was in reference to "So you think being proud of the things that your Society stands for....Democracy, Rule of Law, Freedom of Thought, The Collective History, Culture and Identity is all idiotic?"

I don't think "pride" is the right way to describe it (and I don't think appreciation is the same thing as pride either) as I said I am very much appreciative of such things, but "pride" isn't part of it to me as krooton stated much better than I did.

I think it depends on whether you define 'pride' as an inwardly negative or positive emotion.

I find my pride in my shared association with this country to be a positive thing. Others may not....I don't think either is idiotic though.

 

[cheets64]

I like how these threads get derailed so people cant face up to the facts what is going on in this country!

 

[jakeke]

Well we send little jimmy too school before long he is praying to allah and wearing silly hats or asking why we don't eat more curry for breakfast. Maybe he gets to his teens and refuses to move out, siting his indian friends all live in the same house together, why can't we. Culture shock, little jimmy, you are not indian, you are british, that means we don't all share the same house.

Silly hats? (that's not to mention the rest of that very insulting paragraph)

ocuk and it's disgusting views strikes again

 

[anything I don't mind]

Yes what about the plight of poor little jimmy trying to cope with multicultural nightmare he finds himself in?

 

[kylew]

I like how these threads get derailed so people cant face up to the facts what is going on in this country!

Maybe you're just delusional? UK natives are a greater drain on society than immigrants. It's a fact that you seemingly can't deal with.

 

[jakeke]

I like how these threads get derailed so people cant face up to the facts what is going on in this country!

Indeed, the way the brainless morons in this country treat people of different cultures is sickening. Their intelligence is falling and their hate is rising. It's really worrying. They make me ashamed to say I'm English, they belong in the gutter.

 

[krooton]

Silly hats? (that's not to mention the rest of that very insulting paragraph)

ocuk and it's disgusting views strikes again

Now don't tar ocuk with the dirty(dog) brush of a minority of posters.