Over 370,000 immigrants are on benefits

Castiel · 20 Jan 2012 at 15:49

krooton said:
So if there was another country that shared all or the majority of the positive aspects and culture of the UK, would you feel patriotic about it as well?

To an extent I already do.....I feel a bond and sense of patriotism to the US...although, that has been, for me at least, tested by the last decade or so of US domestic and foreign policy, whereby I still feel patriotism toward the ideals of the nation (and to some extent this is true of UK too) but feel that those in power do not adhere to those ideals...so it would be their patriotism I question, rather than my own.

Patriotism doesn't mean you agree with everything an administration does in that Countries name....your loyality is to the values and ideals that nation represents, not alway the way men can corrupt them....a true patriot would defend his nation from those who would seek to corrupt those ideals as much as those who oppose them...

For example, I do not defend Dirtydogs hatred against another nationality simply because he is British....I oppose his hatred because it is contrary to what this country stands for.

krooton · 20 Jan 2012 at 15:51

Castiel said:
To an extent I already do.....I feel a bond and sense of patriotism to the US...although, that has been, for me at least, tested by the last decade or so of US domestic and foreign policy, whereby I still feel patriotism toward the ideals of the nation (and to some extent this is true of UK too) but feel that those in power do not adhere to those ideals...so it would be their patriotism I question, rather than my own.

Patriotism doesn't mean you agree with everything an administration does in that Countries name....your loyality is to the values and ideals that nation represents, not alway the way men can corrupt them....a true patriot would defend his nation from those who would seek to corrupt those ideals as much as those who oppose them...

So you've lived in the US for a period at some point in your life? I would think it a bit odd to feel in any way patriotic towards a country you have but visited on holiday... sounds more just like appreciation for their ideals/culture/beliefs.

anything I don't mind · 20 Jan 2012 at 15:52

jakeke said:
Indeed, the way the brainless morons in this country treat people of different cultures is sickening. Their intelligence is falling and their hate is rising. It's really worrying. They make me ashamed to say I'm English, they belong in the gutter.

It is the white liberals that will be the downfall of this nation, with their acceptance of other cultures without restraint. They will throw out 100s of traditions and heritage because they don't want to offend someone.

I am sure you won't mind then if you family members turn to islam.

Threepwood · 20 Jan 2012 at 15:53

Now don't tar ocuk with the dirty(dog) brush of a minority of posters.

Seems like a pretty large minority sometimes tho, have started to wonder about this place on more than one occasion. Some of the views held by quite a number of folks on here are pretty shocking, ill-informed and downright vile.

krooton · 20 Jan 2012 at 15:53

groen said:
It is the white liberals that will be the downfall of this nation, with their acceptance of other cultures without restraint. They will throw out 100s of traditions and heritage because they don't want to offend someone.

I am sure you won't mind then if you family members turn to islam.

All religions are the same to me, I would feel no different towards a family member for what they choose to belief. I don't own them.

kylew · 20 Jan 2012 at 15:54

groen said:
It is the white liberals that will be the downfall of this nation, with their acceptance of other cultures without restraint. They will throw out 100s of traditions and heritage because they don't want to offend someone.

I am sure you won't mind then if you family members turn to islam.

What does it matter? If it's their choice and they're doing it because they want to who are you to "mind" it?

Your name is so incredibly apt, you've just spelt it wrong. *groan*

wannabedamned · 20 Jan 2012 at 15:55

shadesofgrey said:
Seems like a pretty large minority sometimes tho, have started to wonder about this place on more than one occasion. Some of the views held by quite a number of folks on here are pretty shocking, ill-informed and downright vile.

Same can be said about the world though, Cant see why it would be different on a forum where no doubt the same people from all walks of life can be found. It's not OCUK specific. And saying it like it is, isnt good for a shop site

Also, in answer to a few questions earlier. An insults an insult. and its against the rules. Regardless of who is being insulted, or why.

kylew · 20 Jan 2012 at 15:55

shadesofgrey said:
Seems like a pretty large minority sometimes tho, have started to wonder about this place on more than one occasion. Some of the views held by quite a number of folks on here are pretty shocking, ill-informed and downright vile.

It's because such views are tolerated her as "the owner" has similar ideals.

I think so many people here are guilty of keyboard warriorism.

arctine · 20 Jan 2012 at 15:56

krooton said:
That's the way of the internet and opinions I guess, forums would dull if it weren't the case.

I just fail to see how locality should have a bearing on pride. I'm not proud of my upstairs neighbour's kid if they get straight As, and they are pretty much the closest geographical achiever of anything to me apart from my gf.

Should people living in Newcastle be more proud of the achievements of Scottish people than those of Londoners? The are much closer to them, but then that border that a bunch of people defined hundreds of years ago says no.

No.

They aren't proud of something because of its location, they are proud of something because of its heritage, traditions and achievements.

Ultimately, they're proud because they belong to something or something belongs to them. I'm proud of Britain because I'm British. I belong to Britain. My ancestors belonged to Britain and through each generation they helped make Britain what is today in one way or another. This is true to everyone who is British and so there is a shared sense of pride for everything Britain stands for and everything she has achieved.

Basically youre confusing the reason people feel pride for their location with them being literally proud of their location. They aren't proud because they live there, they're proud of the traditions they have inherited from living there.

This is why someone who isn't British can still be proud of what Britain is. They can come here and become a part of Britain's future which will undoubtedly become a part of Britain's past for future generations to be proud of.

anything I don't mind · 20 Jan 2012 at 15:56

I would respect their choice of course, but i would not shut up like a good little liberal and say nothing. I would stand for something and tell them how silly their decision was, every single time i saw them. Maybe if you stood for something, if you had principles you would understand this.

krooton · 20 Jan 2012 at 15:56

shadesofgrey said:
Seems like a pretty large minority sometimes tho, have started to wonder about this place on more than one occasion. Some of the views held by quite a number of folks on here are pretty shocking, ill-informed and downright vile.

A vocal minority will pipe up more in the topic they feel strongly about. Only a few people have been added to my "Ignore them and their racist views" list, the vast majority of posters on here have at least vaguely agreeable views on the topic.

Remember, for every idiot that posts racist drivel, there are probably 50 non-racists who don't bother to get involved in the thread.

wannabedamned · 20 Jan 2012 at 15:57

kylew said:
It's because such views are tolerated her as "the owner" has similar ideals.

I think so many people here are guilty of keyboard warriorism.

I think you may be dancing on a knifes edge, if you think its okay to try and call the site owner racist.

Threepwood · 20 Jan 2012 at 15:57

Same can be said about the world though, Cant see why it would be different on a forum where no doubt the same people from all walks of life can be found.

Yes, I agree, but what worries more about this place is how much of it is allowed.

kylew · 20 Jan 2012 at 15:57

wannabedamned said:
Same can be said about the world though, Cant see why it would be different on a forum where no doubt the same people from all walks of life can be found. It's not OCUK specific. And saying it like it is, isnt good for a shop site

Also, in answer to a few questions earlier. An insults an insult. and its against the rules. Regardless of who is being insulted, or why.

Okay, so let's say I'm insulted by apostrophe abuse. Should that be banned from the forum? (of course it should be banned, just not because I find it offensive.)

"Offensive" and "insulting" are context sensitive.

kylew · 20 Jan 2012 at 15:58

wannabedamned said:
I think you may be dancing on a knifes edge, if you think its okay to try and call the site owner racist.

Are you aware of comments made and views held by some of the people in positions of power on this forum?

If you don't want to be labelled as a racist, don't hold and express racist views, right? What's not "okay" about that?

anything I don't mind · 20 Jan 2012 at 15:59

kylew you are always moaning about what people say on here, you are the worst kind of liberal the kind that tries to silence debate and discussion that you disagree with. Now you are making claims about the owners ideals. That is pretty outlandish imo.

Castiel · 20 Jan 2012 at 15:59

krooton said:
So you've lived in the US for a period at some point in your life? I would think it a bit odd to feel in any way patriotic towards a country you have but visited on holiday... sounds more just like appreciation for their ideals/culture/beliefs.

I am a dual national.....British father, American mother. I grew up in both countries.....born in the UK, spent much of my later childhood and teenage years in the US and came back to the UK when I was 15 or so.....I hold a far greater loyality to the UK because of personal reasons, but maybe patriotism is too strong a word for how I feel about the US....I feel a bond to the country because part of my culture is uniquely American, and I feel a certain loyality to that culture and the heritage I share...although a far greater one to the UK mainly because of the opportunities the UK offered over the United States....partly due to the values and social idealism in this country that simply doesn't exist in the US as a whole.

krooton · 20 Jan 2012 at 15:59

groen said:
I would respect their choice of course, but i would not shut up like a good little liberal and say nothing. I would stand for something and tell them how silly their decision was, every single time i saw them.

Pro tip: That's not respecting their choice. At all.

Wizzfizz · 20 Jan 2012 at 15:59

kylew said:
It's because such views are tolerated her as "the owner" has similar ideals.

I think so many people here are guilty of keyboard warriorism.

That won't go down well.

I agree with the second part, yourself added if you're meaning on these forums

Andy · 20 Jan 2012 at 15:59

My patriotism is to make my country better, whatever country it be that i live in. I don't want to kick anybody out, i just want to filter what comes in.

Pride has nothing to do with it. I would be proud if we banned political correctnes and religion though. Now that would be progress.