Ramadan Mubarak

Soldato
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This thread sure took a different avenue.

What do Muslims think of Christians, can we really live side by side? I just cant see it happening myself, both have ways of life that cant integrate.

No, idiots woth differig views can't live together.

Educated, normal people can set differences aside and live harmoniously side by side no problem.
 
Soldato
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This thread sure took a different avenue.

What do Muslims think of Christians, can we really live side by side? I just cant see it happening myself, both have ways of life that cant integrate.

I love my Christian and Jewish brothers, the above religions are suprisingly similar, so suprised you think so! The law of the land must be obeyed, where it isnt contrary to core values.

In this country its more to do with the fact Christianity is pretty gone from everyday life.
 
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Is Halal in this country more likely to mean that animal has suffered less?

According to the RSPCA there is very little difference between the humane treatment of Animals in Secular or Halal slaughterhouses.

The fact that Halal forbids certain widespread practices such as battery farming and the welfare of the animal is a high priority of the Halal requirements, in the UK it is a gross overreaction to suggest Halal is barbaric compared to standard farming and slaughter.

That is not to say we should not be vigilant and try to eliminate the remaining 10% of Halal that is still slaughtered without stunning (and the Kosher markets also) but with the same token, standard slaughter of animals has a comparable percentage that doesn't compu with what is considered humane slaughter techniques and we should also be working to halt that.
 
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No, idiots woth differig views can't live together.

Educated, normal people can set differences aside and live harmoniously side by side no problem.

But we as a human race have been trying to do that and we are in 2012 and countries are still fighting over religion and how they should be ruled.

Nothings changed, in my view we are part of the universe, no religion is better than the other. How one book is the one to live your life by. I take bits from the bible to think about things in my life but never take it as gospel, no pun intended.
 
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According to the RSPCA there is very little difference between the humane treatment of Animals in Secular or Halal slaughterhouses.

The fact that Halal forbids certain widespread practices such as battery farming and the welfare of the animal is a high priority of the Halal requirements, in the UK it is a gross overreaction to suggest Halal is barbaric compared to standard farming and slaughter.

That is not to say we should not be vigilant and try to eliminate the remaining 10% of Halal that is still slaughtered without stunning (and the Kosher markets also) but with the same token, standard slaughter of animals has a comparable percentage that doesn't compu with what is considered humane slaughter techniques and we should also be working to halt that.

do you just look on wiki and website for forum ammo?
 

mrk

mrk

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I question things, but I would not think, 'hmm, I wonder if Allah is not real.'
I would never think that, in 20 years lets see if I am still a Muslim :)

The question is why would you not question that? It is perfectly normal to question things. It is human nature to be curious about the World we live in, it's why we've been looking up at the stars and doing gigantic calculations to arrive at mathematical conclusions for years. It is why Science exists.

The Arabic language can fall foul to wrong translations and interpretations because of how fragile different words are and they can also be taken out of context. Extremists already do this and other parts of the world follow a backwards structure that's been skewed over generations but to them they're following what they think is the true word of God.

Whatever religion you follow, your God made you curious and by that definition you will question things whether you like to admit it or not. To not be curious is to not be human.

The way I see it, and have done for some years, is that if there is a God then when I die then I wish to ask several questions in person because that is the way he would have made me. If it is correct that we are made exactly the way God intended us to be then this is the exact plane God will have had for each and every one of us.
If there isn't, then I will have lived a healthy life exploring curiosities and attempting to find answers to questions that others don't want to ask.

Now that wouldn't make me less of a Muslim or a follower of traditions/culture, not at all. It just means I have sought out my own meaning to life around me as opposed to what I might have been told to follow by peers.
 
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do you just look on wiki and website for forum ammo?

This has been discussed innumerable times on this forum, as well you know considering you have participated in a fair few of them and should by now understand or at least be aware of the readily available information yourself.

Rather than questioning my knowledge and where I have gained it, you might be better served by doing some objective research yourself before making judgements.

:)
 
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Are the slaughter methods shown in any of the following videos halal?
http://www.youtube.com/user/thisishalal

***WARNING: YOU CAN CLICK THE LINK; IT'S SAFE, BUT THE VIDEOS MAY BE DISTURBING***

Depends how relaxed people are with their beliefs, personally me and my family don't consume meat which has been stunned before it is slaughtered. Meat from fast so called "halal" fast food outlets like KFC, Nandos et el all sell stunned meat and we don't eat from any of these places.

Also certified meat should carry a HFC label so it can be linked back to the slaughter house, however now the Pakistanis in order to make a quick buck fake their certificates and wack them up in their superstores. Luckily the committee which run HFC have a list of established distributers and shops which sell their meat that can be looked up on their website.
 
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But we as a human race have been trying to do that and we are in 2012 and countries are still fighting over religion and how they should be ruled.

Nothings changed, in my view we are part of the universe, no religion is better than the other. How one book is the one to live your life by. I take bits from the bible to think about things in my life but never take it as gospel, no pun intended.

Its not always religion that is the cause, also power and resources, sometimes under the guise of religion.

You need to stop focussing on the differences and more on the similarities we share. Christains, muslims and jews were living side by side for many years in palestine, before the occupation for example.
 
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According to the RSPCA there is very little difference between the humane treatment of Animals in Secular or Halal slaughterhouses.

The fact that Halal forbids certain widespread practices such as battery farming and the welfare of the animal is a high priority of the Halal requirements, in the UK it is a gross overreaction to suggest Halal is barbaric compared to standard farming and slaughter.

That is not to say we should not be vigilant and try to eliminate the remaining 10% of Halal that is still slaughtered without stunning (and the Kosher markets also) but with the same token, standard slaughter of animals has a comparable percentage that doesn't compu with what is considered humane slaughter techniques and we should also be working to halt that.

Thanks :)

But we as a human race have been trying to do that and we are in 2012 and countries are still fighting over religion and how they should be ruled.

Nothings changed, in my view we are part of the universe, no religion is better than the other. How one book is the one to live your life by. I take bits from the bible to think about things in my life but never take it as gospel, no pun intended.

Us normal, civilised people are fine living side by side. There will always be idiots like the suicide bombers and al quaeda ruining it for the rest of us, but in today's modern society, the vast majority of us in first world countries are living side by side in relative harmony
 
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Depends how relaxed people are with their beliefs, personally me and my family don't consume meat which has been stunned before it is slaughtered. Meat from fast so called "halal" fast food outlets like KFC, Nandos et el all sell stunned meat and we don't eat from any of these places.

Also certified meat should carry a HFC label so it can be linked back to the slaughter house, however now the Pakistanis in order to make a quick buck fake their certificates and wack them up in their superstores. Luckily the committee which run HFC have a list of established distributers and shops which sell their meat that can be looked up on their website.

Animal cruelty and racism in the one post. Nice going...

Seriously though what's specifically wrong with stunning before killing? Why does the animal need to be conscious before it's killed? Is it a a direct requirement of Halal or is it just an indicator that something else hasn't been followed?
 
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Animal cruelty and racism in the one post. Nice going...

Seriously though what's specifically wrong with stunning before killing? Why does the animal need to be conscious before it's killed? Is it a a direct requirement of Halal or is it just an indicator that something else hasn't been followed?

i dont think was doing either :p

Its comman for takeaway owners to use fake certificates.

Plus some dont believe stunning the animal prior to slaughtering is allowed.
 
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Animal cruelty and racism in the one post. Nice going...

Seriously though what's specifically wrong with stunning before killing? Why does the animal need to be conscious before it's killed? Is it a a direct requirement of Halal or is it just an indicator that something else hasn't been followed?

Do you even know the definition of racism? Prejudice or even stereotypical it may have been but calling the race card is so cliche.

The thread will get very boring about the rulings (fatwas) about lawful meat. Just follow your own school of thought or read on the hundreds of articles about HFA vs HMC on the net. If you are happy with eating stunned meat then that's your decision.

P.S I meant HMC is what I eat not HFA
 

mrk

mrk

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Just got this in a whatsapp message:

David n Michael were lost in the Sahara desert.
They were dying of thirst when they saw a mosque.
David said: "Look, it's a mosque, let's pretend we are Muslims, otherwise we'll not get any food or drink.

I'm going to call myself "Ahmed."

Michael refused to change his name, and said:
"I will not pretend to be other than but what I am!"

The Imam of the mosque received both well and asked about their names.

David said:
"My name is Ahmed"

Michael said :
"My name is Michael"

The Imam turned to his helpers and said:
"Please bring food and water for Michael only".

Then he turned to David and said:
"Brother Ahmed,





RAMADAN MUBARAK!!!"








:o
 
Soldato
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In terms of questioning your faith, I'd hope that most people reach a certain point in time where they begin to question what they have been brought up to believe in. Islam encourages us to seek knowledge.

Personally, I would be lying to myself if I tried to convince myself that there wasn't a God, for me it is a case of trying to find the right path, as I am still doing. Those who are honest to themselves and believe there is no Creator, I salute them firstly because for them to arrive at that stage means they must be at least thinking. Unknowingly, they have actually accepted the very first part of the Shahadah (the Islamic declaration of faith) which begins with 'There is no god'. Once you have eliminated all models of god which are man made, can you later go on and accept the One true God, since the shahadah continues... 'except Allah'. We have no images of God, we have a limited understanding and can never fully comprehend the Creator of the universe in all His Glory. We try to form a relationship with God and get closer to God through His names, which describe His attributes.

That's not trolling?!

Can I ask you guys;what exactly is the significance of Halal to you?
Seriously though what's specifically wrong with stunning before killing? Why does the animal need to be conscious before it's killed? Is it a a direct requirement of Halal or is it just an indicator that something else hasn't been followed?

Unfortunately, what I have come to realise from my own experiences is that many Muslims when referring to halaal meat, seem to only be concerned with how an animal is slaughtered. From my understanding of Islam, for meat to truly be halaal the animal should be looked after, free to roam around in open space and treated with respect. If it is abused and kept in a confined space, genetically modified, pumped full of drugs and hormones to make it fatter to increase profits, I would question whether this meat can be halaal irrespective of the manner in which it is slaughtered.

Not only that but recent documentaries I have seen where they go undercover and take meat from various halaal places, it was discovered the meat actually contained pork. In reality, even though many places have a certificate on the wall saying 'HALAAL CERTIFIED' even they themselves have little clue as to what is actually going into the meat, they will normally buy it at the cheapest price possible. It's one of the reasons why I hope to leave this country since I think it's becoming more and more difficult to find actual halaal food, and I can see it becoming even more difficult as time goes on.

As a non Muslim, or non religious person, I can see how you may regard the Islamic slaughter method as inhumane since, yes you do see blood but you need to take a step back and be objective. Firstly, we as Muslims believe that our Creator (who also created all creatures) has permitted us to kill animals for the purpose of food. As soon as you cut the main artery in the neck it stops blood flow to the brain instantly and the animal cannot possibly feel pain. Please watch this video, don't worry there is no blood:


The animal itself submits to the Will of God (that is our view) but you can see for yourself, they are in absolutely no state of panic, no shock, no pain. Once they recite the prayer over the animal, the animal submits. Compare this to the videos I have seen of animals where the 'more humane' method is used - the animals are running around in a state of frenzy, who knows what sorts of chemicals are released into the blood once you start to pump x number of volts into an animals brain? The prophets of God all slaughtered animals in the best manner and it is the manner which we try to follow today, this will never change because no matter what mainstream society thinks, when you actually believe in God (and that is ultimately what it comes down too) then you have no difficulty in accepting that He has already shown us the best way. I hope that goes some way in answering your question. :)
 
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As soon as you cut the main artery in the neck it stops blood flow to the brain instantly and the animal cannot possibly feel pain.

I thought the only way to stop pain from being transmitted would be to severe the spinal chord... Obviously cutting the throat doesn't cause instantaneous death, but unconsciousness followed by death through exsanguination which can take several seconds, not an instant (and what is an instant in terms of measurement of time?).

So from the time you cut the animals throat it feels the stabbing. It feels the blood drain from itself until it's rendered unconscious and then dies due to blood loss.

In my opinion the most humane method of killing livestock would be the guillotine. It's not like it would be hard to adapt current slaughterhouse equipment to do it. And done properly it would be quicker than stunning and bleeding, or simply bleeding the animal to death. It also benefits of severing the spinal chord in a fraction of a second and separating the head entirely from the animal just to make sure the spinal chord is well and truly ****ed, as they say.
 
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