32 dead after being declared fit for work

[stockhausen]

Yea ok the questions are a joke, but fit to work is not a yes or no answer as you could pass all the questions and be classed as fit for work yet deep down clearly not fit for work it's based on individuals and it should be a one on one interview type basis? if it's just based on a questionare then it's really a joke. ...

Here is the JOKE.

 

[Xordium]

Here is the JOKE.

Yer the interesting thing there is I could do that for my one year old;

Can move 200 yd easily - yep can crawl that far
Can go up two steps easily - yep can crawl that no problems if I turn my back
Can move from one seat to another - yep can do that no problems
Can reach to pocket - Are we seeing a pattern yet!
Can reach above head - yep
Can pick up one pint carton - Yep
Cardboard box - Empty one yep
Manual dexterity - yep no problems with those
...

and it goes on - yep my one year passes with flying colours! Time to get sweeping them chimneys!

 

[Tefal]

Yer the interesting thing there is I could do that for my one year old;

Can move 200 yd easily - yep can crawl that far

your one year old can crawl 200 yards without stopping?


interesting cause if i tried to crawl hands and knees two hundred yards on tarmac i'd have some pretty bloody knees and be in a fair amount of pain.

 

[Edrof]

His point is clear.

 

[Destination]

Should prosecutions follow.


No, they should not OP.
They should encourage more back to work.

 

[Tefal]

His point is clear.

That his perfectly fit and healthy child is not disabled?

Yes that's quite the achievement.

but seriously go try and crawl 220 yards on your hands and knees without stopping once.

 

[kilohawk]

This story is utter rubbish!

I know of people who can get work easily, but they pass as disabled and so get disability allowance when they want a break from work, or cannot get work just like the rest of humanity....

 

[Narj]

Without the causes of death, this is utterly worthless.

What if they all died in car accidents or got run over by buses?

I could understand if they'd been pushed back into heavy lifting work and had died of heart attacks but the article presents no facts whatsoever!

 

[robgmun]

Rubbish article.

Indeed, one of the worst pieces of journalism I've seen in sometime

 

[Tefal]

Indeed, one of the worst pieces of journalism I've seen in sometime

clearly you don't read the news often

 

[AndyPants]

Atos are utter scum. Deceptive questioning, complete ranges of conditions unable to be tested for, consequences of actions completely ignored. That does not though mean these people died as a result of being "forced" back into work. There are not enough details to say that. But we can be certain that companies such as Atos are not training people appropriately, are using a very poor framework, etc and most importantly when challenged properly have a awful lot of their decisions overturned. Unfortunately, an lot of very sick people neither have the capacity, capability or the inclination anymore to challenge such things and there is no-one to advocate for these people at all without seriously looking - again something else they are hardly likely to do.

Let's take a look at what people are asked and the vague assumptions that are made:

Did you get here ok today

a) Polite answer "Yes thank you" - assumption drawn - candidate able to move to a different area enter a building and find a person - fit for work in this regard
b) Truthful answer "Yes thank you, my wife drove me here as I am unable to walk without great difficulty, fortunately you had lifts as I am unable to use stairs etc etc"

How easy is it for someone really nervous just to go with option a)

How about someone with MS or ME which are not really tested for

"Can you walk 50m?"

"Yes I can but I get very fatigued and have to rest at the end sometimes including sleep and I then struggle to concentrate for some time - that is how my neurological condition presents partially"

"Arr", writes down candidate can walk 100m - fit for work, " Right can you stand up and raise your hands in the air" ... l

This. 100% This.
This is exactly whats happened to me this year, well November last year, and my appeal has only JUST come through for next week. My doctor says I have zero chance of been fit for work for some time, however the Doc at ATOS gave me zero`s across the board, even though in his notes he has said himself I have trouble with a few things.
Luckily I have Welfare Rights adviser assisting me although I am not confident hes any good but we shall see. It is a disgrace this system for the genuine among us, but from my own front door I see 5-6 people that are frauds and they constantly get away with it, which I foresee getting reported very soon.
I can imagine people that weren't that bad before these decisions and appeal process length been very ill by the end of it with all the worry.

 

[gothic_hobbit]

My area is meant to be one of the nicer places but even then we've got the council commandeered a house in the street for some ***** woman with 8 kids and a new boyfriend every night.

I hate people like this. Complete and utter scum.

They never seem to get hassle from the DWP.

How do they get away with it ?

 

[Xordium]

your one year old can crawl 200 yards without stopping?

interesting cause if i tried to crawl hands and knees two hundred yards on tarmac i'd have some pretty bloody knees and be in a fair amount of pain.

Did you see anywhere where it said tarmac? Because I didn't because it does not say tarmac so I fail to understand why you mention that at all.

That his perfectly fit and healthy child is not disabled?

Yes that's quite the achievement.

but seriously go try and crawl 220 yards on your hands and knees without stopping once.

Does it say you have to run, does it say you have to do it non-stop? For a self-proclaimed grammar Nazi you don't seem to be able to read very well.

 

[Tefal]

Does it say you have to run, does it say you have to do it non-stop? For a self-proclaimed grammar Nazi you don't seem to be able to read very well.

yes it says you have to be able to do it without stopping :/

and more importantly without difficulty.



I don't believe your one year old could crawl 220 yards without difficulty or without stopping.

 

[Xordium]

yes it says you have to be able to do it without stopping :/

and more importantly without difficulty.
c

If you look at the law behind this it says "stop" as in come to a complete halt - not aimlessly pootle along. And yes a one year old can easily crawl that far they can also walk that far with someone holding their hand which would be classed as an aid.

But I am sure you get the point and are just being pedantic or are drunk or something because if anyone else had posted what you just did you'd be on it like a ton of bricks.

 

[Xordium]

I don't believe your one year old could crawl 220 yards without difficulty or without stopping.

So you don't think a almost two year old child can crawl 200 yds. Strange do you have kids and if so I take it you ferry them around in a car because I'd be quite worried if a 23 month old child could not do that kind of distance. My lad was walking 1.5 miles every morning and evening to his childminders and back by the age of 2.

 

[Cleeecooo]

So you don't think a almost two year old child can crawl 200 yds. Strange do you have kids and if so I take it you ferry them around in a car because I'd be quite worried if a 23 month old child could not do that kind of distance. My lad was walking 1.5 miles every morning and evening to his childminders and back by the age of 2.

Since when were there 23 months per annum?

I'm pretty sure an average 1yr old can't crawl 220yrds non stop

 

[Tefal]

So you don't think a almost two year old child can crawl 200 yds. Strange do you have kids and if so I take it you ferry them around in a car because I'd be quite worried if a 23 month old child could not do that kind of distance. My lad was walking 1.5 miles every morning and evening to his childminders and back by the age of 2.

walk sure, crawl no.

especially on something hard that would **** his knees up.

might just be because I'm a lot heavier than a one year old but crawling on hands and knees on hard surfaces for even relatively short distances really is quite painful. (and before you ask yes this is something i've done recently, and btw crawling up/down steps is fine when your small when your an adult it't quite scary )

try it man, go on your kitchen floor and have a good crawl around you'd be surprised how much it hurts.

 

[dowie]

32 people out of how many? What age groups were concerned?* In how many of those instances was the cause of death the same as the condition they were appealing for?

People die every day - the fact that 32 people out of a large group have died over a three years is completely meaningless in itself. I'd suspect some of them were irrelevant to the condition others might well be - I doubt any system would be perfect though I wonder what sort of % error we're talking about with these deaths...


*If you live in some parts of the UK the average life expectancy is less than the state pension/retirement age.

 

[stockhausen]

32 people out of how many?
What age groups were concerned?
In how many of those instances was the cause of death the same as the condition they were appealing for? ...

Who knows? Why don't you research it, find out and report back?

You might like to start HERE

Incidentally, Professor Malcolm Harrington, the occupational health specialist who called for a big overhaul of the process of testing claimants' ability to work and claims that recommended changes to the system are not happening quickly enough has decided to stand down after he produces his report. It seems that the Tories want a "fresh set of eyes" to investigate further; he has made clear that it was the government's decision, but rejected suggestions that he had effectively been sacked.