"If we had to slaughter our own meat, we'd all be vegetarian"
- Thread starter Six7th
- Start date
I was a Butcher from the age of 7, my dad, his brother their dad and my two brothers, meat is just another commodity, had little say in the matter tbh. Trips to the slaughterhouse weekly, you like meat we provide meat nothing more.
I have always argued this to people but the figures now elude me, if cattle and sheep were not killed for meat and there are millions of them (you goggle the number) they would all still have to be slaughtered as they could not be allowed to roam free, so anyway you look at it they die, for meat or culling makes no difference. To be killed in the wild is 100 times worse than almost instant death in a slaughterhouse. Then if you are not going to eat or milk them what use have they in a modern world, they would become vermin, eating crops etc the breeds would have to be exterminated to make way for swaths of crops, to feed all the vegetarian's, plus no natural fertilizers for the land and so on.
I have always argued this to people but the figures now elude me, if cattle and sheep were not killed for meat and there are millions of them (you goggle the number) they would all still have to be slaughtered as they could not be allowed to roam free, so anyway you look at it they die, for meat or culling makes no difference. To be killed in the wild is 100 times worse than almost instant death in a slaughterhouse. Then if you are not going to eat or milk them what use have they in a modern world, they would become vermin, eating crops etc the breeds would have to be exterminated to make way for swaths of crops, to feed all the vegetarian's, plus no natural fertilizers for the land and so on.
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Or the veggies that consume dairy products, what do They think happens to the male calves? Let lone the act that it means an animal was raised in captivity, forefully impregnated an unnatural amount of times and then slaughtered when its productivity falls below a threshold.
Vegetarians just don't make sense, one would have tone a strict vegan for starters. But then intensive arable farming also leads to the deaths of many animals and the unnatural cultivation of land and environmental destruction.
Man of Honour
I'm not and never have proposed that everyone should become vegetarian but out of interest why is it always presented as a sudden thing i.e. one day the world is omnivorous and the next it is vegetarian leaving millions of meat animals bereft of purpose in life and awaiting a futile death? Would it not be more likely that if vegetarianism was an option pursued by more people the levels of animals bred for meat would simply decline as a result of a fall in demand so it would be gradual rather than a mass cull of millions of animals all at once?
It's amazing how absolute everything has to be for some people - you can't make small changes or improvements, it has to be all or nothing. Suppose for a second you want to get fitter - do you have to become an Olympic level athlete or it's all a complete waste of time? If the answer is no then perhaps you've got a reason why absolutes don't always apply.
If shops were not selling ready killed/packaged meat and we had to go and "hunt" our own meat, we would absolutely kill instinctively.
Would you not hunt to feed your family?
Nature states that a father and mother will kill to keep themselves and their children fed. Humans are no different.
Soldato
There would be more vegetarians, but certainly not everyone.
My eating habits would change, but thats because I'm lazy. You get more meat per unit time killing cows and pigs than you do chickens, so I'd eat less chicken.
My eating habits would change, but thats because I'm lazy. You get more meat per unit time killing cows and pigs than you do chickens, so I'd eat less chicken.
...or the veggies that say "I don't eat meat, but I have fish now and then"
If I had a dollar each time I heard that one....
These double standards really ****ing grate me which is why I gave up being a vegetarian myself as I wasn't mentally strong enough to go vegan. Unless you go vegan then whats the point, you're full of **** being a vegetarian and eating fish, eggs and dairy products!
I once got a vegetarian to eat an Aberdeen Angus steak.
But Vegetarianism just seems incredibly half-arsed. Most of them are vegetarians because they don't like the way the animals are killed for us to eat. They don't care/notice that the animal may live a ****** life trapped inside a pen and impregnated multiple times so they produce more milk but as soon as it comes to them being killed for their meat they're all up in arms.
Permabanned
I'm squeamish but it wouldn't stop me, it would just be easier if animals were all meat instead of guts.
I'd have no problems killing cattle for meat, however I do think that most of my friends would. I spent a lot of time at my friend farm though and they use to kill and butcher on site, not something that's done much these days so I've seen it being done. Not nice but necessary.
I do toy with the idea of going veggie though, but in truth I simply prefer eating fish and meat regularly.
I do toy with the idea of going veggie though, but in truth I simply prefer eating fish and meat regularly.
I know I'm late to the thread, but there are great reasons be a veggie which don't revolve around how cute the little bunnies are and how horrific it is to strangle them.
For one it's more land efficient, and you feed more people per unit land.
For two if you do it right there are health benefits.
For three... think of the cute little wabbits!
These double standards really ****ing grate me which is why I gave up being a vegetarian myself as I wasn't mentally strong enough to go vegan. Unless you go vegan then whats the point, you're full of **** being a vegetarian and eating fish, eggs and dairy products!
I once got a vegetarian to eat an Aberdeen Angus steak.
LOL WUT
the point in being a vegetarian is you dont eat any animal flesh, so your point about being vegan is total rubbish
and for the 50th time vegetarians DONT EAT FISH, not much of a veggie were you if you think theres no point being veggie unless you go vegan, cos LOL vegetarians eat fish.
What's the point of being a Veggie though? To make yourself feel better an animal isn't killed for you to eat (And a few who just don't like the taste of meat). By being a Veggie but not a vegan, you're basically saying "Don't kill animals but it's fine to impregnate fairy cows multiple times so they produce more milk and kill male dairy cows because they're useless and just take up space". Granted some Veggies will go out their way to make sure their dairy products and the like are sourced from good places that treat animals better than most but most veggies won't.
Man of Honour
Thank you for proving the point quite so eloquently about it being always about the absolutes for some people. It's not worth the argument though, if that's the way you want to think about it then it's no skin off my nose.
Man of Honour
Half an arse is better than none...that's stretched the figure of speech past breaking point.
I'll point out here that some vegetarians won't eat eggs or dairy products for the ethical reasons you refer to. That's not veganism - veganism is about more than just food.
Lacto-ovo vegetarianism is half-arsed if it's done because of an ethical stance on the treatment of animals. Well, maybe not half-arsed. Maybe three-quarters arsed. Which stretches the figure of speech again, but it helps make the point. If a person is saying that humans shouldn't treat animals as things to be used for food, then doing it less is still something. Half-arsed, but not pointless.
Although I suspect you're right in thinking that most lacto-ovo vegetarians just don't think about the way the animals were treated in order to provide them with food. Which makes them like most omnivores.
Hmm...I seem to have invalidated my own argument
Man of Honour
Only when we don't have to because we've arranged some other food supply (usually involving other people killing animals for us).
Put me out in the wild and in very little time I'll be bashing animals' heads in with a club. They die or I do and instinct says it ain't going to be me. I'll use my hands and teeth if I don't have more effective weapons available.
Humans can over-ride their instincts to a large extent with thought and willpower, but we still have them and they're the instincts of an apex predator. We're not a classic apex predator, but we've used our cunning and aptitude for tool use to take the position by force. It's why human babies can make so much noise - they don't have to be silent because they don't have to hide.