Do you believe in prophecy?

[Monkey00]

Well said, the same can be said about people who think they have seen god, experienced the afterlife, or claimed to have had a NDE.

Even more for me to spout about, near death experiences, life flashing before your eyes etc, this is all possibly true.

I don't know whether or not any research has been done in this area (Mainly due to ethics etc), but this is my theory when you die, or come close, your brain dumps all of it's chemicals, so, your brain is working perfectly, not only that, time would almost stand still for you. In the same way a dream can seem to go on for hours while you sleep but is most likely over in minutes in real time. You would also be feeling euphoric unlocking all your most treasured memories, if not sending you into the most amazing dream you could ever imagine.

Seeing the pearly gates during a near death experience is probably quite a common thing, because people have an idea of heaven, and with all the chemicals flooding your head you would probably create your own idea of heaven.

Urgh, I didn't see all this stuff about things coming true that people had written (If people were saying it sarcastically, good troll on me, if not...). Some guy (who it was I don't know or care) wrote that "2 great towers will fall and a great war will ensue", people said that was about the twin towers. All I can say is, infinite monkeys, infinite typewriters.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...writers-close-to-reproducing-Shakespeare.html

If they can type Shakespare, I bet they've "predicted" some of the future as well if you wanted to trawl through that. (I found the link and always thought it was a saying, never thought of someone doing it via e-monkeys.)

 

[bhavv]

There's a whole amusing thread on the issue of an afterlife here, too many people still believe that their consciousness will live forever in some alternate universe for all of eternity, and that NDEs are somehow proof of this. I will not mention this topic again in this thread, unless someone quotes this post and starts an argument.

 

[Morbius]

I take it you have heard of the dead sea scrolls right? Which show the complete accuracy of the old testament to what we have today. Was that retroactively re-written too?

Which version of the old testament? NIV? King James? etc. etc.

 

[Castiel]

I take it you have heard of the dead sea scrolls right? Which show the complete accuracy of the old testament to what we have today. Was that retroactively re-written too?

The Qumran Manuscripts do not support the complete accuracy (of translation/transcription) of the Old Testament as found in the Masoretic and the other two sets of texts used more commonly for Biblical Transcription. In fact the converse is true insofar that the Qumran Manuscripts show that while some of the Masoretic texts are almost identical some are very different.

What the discovery of the Qumran Mauscripts shows is that until the late 1st/early 2nd Century canonisation of what is generally accepted as the Old Testament (Jewish) the scripture was changeable, both in what was accepted and also in the manner in which it was transcribed and interpreted, particularly between 400BCE and 200AD with the move away from 2nd Temple Judaism toward Rabbinic Judaism and Written rather than Oral tradition.

What you find in most Bibles (Christian) however is based not on the Qumran Manuscripts, but on the tripartite authority of the 9th Century Masoretic Transcriptions, The 4th Century (and later) Septuagint, and the 3rd Century (attributed) Samaritan Pentateuch.....all of which are retrospective as regarding the body of work they represent.

Specific to the Torah is also that it draws from four sources (known commonly as the J, P, E, D) which are often in dispute with each other...(see the passages relating to covenant of Abraham for an example), this is obviously (this being a forum post) an oversimplification of the process, but it belies and disputes your assertions regarding the validity of Biblical Prophecy being anything other than interpretative.

 

[Inquizitor]

I take it you have heard of the dead sea scrolls right? Which show the complete accuracy of the old testament to what we have today. Was that retroactively re-written too?

Lol. Like the cheeky little as if you're getting one over on those of us calling out this nonsense by making statements like "complete accuracy".

Anyone who does believe in prophecy, I've got next week's lottery numbers. I'm taking PayPal donations for them.

 

[cm1179]

Nothing more than a random coincidence if that one 'something' is unexpected.

Like seeing a rabbit being run over after you dreamt it.

 

[trojan698]

Irrelevant. If the future is fixed, then it is fixed. That includes relationships, obviously.

In any case, most people derive meaning through a mixture of those things, which aren't mutually exclusive or even entirely seperate. But it doesn't matter - if you believe that the future is predetermined and fixed (a prerequisite for prophecy) then it applies to everything, including relationships.

Try not to think of it as fixed. That implies that we have no free will, which we do. We have the choice, we walk the path or we don't, only walking it will make us happy. Of course paths change shift, get affected by others. Hence the beautiful random nature of life. I walked it, got distracted, then got back on it.

 

[trojan698]

There's a whole amusing thread on the issue of an afterlife here, too many people still believe that their consciousness will live forever in some alternate universe for all of eternity, and that NDEs are somehow proof of this. I will not mention this topic again in this thread, unless someone quotes this post and starts an argument.

Consciousness leaving the body in the case of cardiac arrests are quite interesting. One example in this lecture the prof speaks of a cardiac arrestee knowing who took and stored his glasses while he was unconscious. Also seeing themselves be resuscitated/operated on is common.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMdR8yG0NI0

It's 2.5 hours long so I doubt you'll bother, but it's there if you want to check it out

 

[Monkey00]

Consciousness leaving the body in the case of cardiac arrests are quite interesting. One example in this lecture the prof speaks of a cardiac arrestee knowing who took and stored his glasses while he was unconscious. Also seeing themselves be resuscitated/operated on is common.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMdR8yG0NI0

It's 2.5 hours long so I doubt you'll bother, but it's there if you want to check it out

This is kind of what I was saying, your brain is in a state of such perfection, it can do as it pleases. It can take all the information you have at hand, and quite easily place it around from different perspectives.

I don't really mind what other people believe, I just can't understand it, so if I end up "arguing" with anyone in here, I'm not, I just want you to prove me wrong. And I'll be throwing anything I have at you to see if you can counter it without using the word faith ^.^ (That's a general point to anyone, a just in case sort of thing so people don't think I'm bashing on them or whatever).

 

[trojan698]

I think the idea consciousness existing outwith the confines of the skull is crucial to uniting science and spirituality. Imagine a world where we all had unquestioned faith. It'd be an amazing place to live. A place where people were held accountable for their actions (not through hell fire) but justice, like a sine wave that rises so must fall. A place where we weren't confined to the idea of our selfish human nature. A place where enslavement, war, and poverty could not exist.

what a thought.

 

[DAnDan]

I think the idea consciousness existing outwith the confines of the skull is crucial to uniting science and spirituality. Imagine a world where we all had unquestioned faith. It'd be an amazing place to live. A place where people were held accountable for their actions (not through hell fire) but justice, like a sine wave that rises so must fall. A place where we weren't confined to the idea of our selfish human nature. A place where enslavement, war, and poverty could not exist.

what a thought.

What the hell have you been smoking!?

 

[Angilion]

Try not to think of it as fixed.

If it's not fixed, it's not already there to be foreseen. Prophecy is predicated on the assumption that the future is fixed. Otherwise, what you're doing is either assessing probabilities (e.g. I can prophecy that it will rain in London in the first week of November), making unfocused statements that people will be able to interpret things into after they've happened (which is what almost all "prophecy" is) or just making stuff up in the hope that people will make it happen.

I don't think of the future as fixed. I don't think that true prophecy is possible. If you think that true prophecy is possible, either you think that the future is fixed or you're contradicting yourself.

 

[trojan698]

what is 'true' prophecy?

 

[Angilion]

what is 'true' prophecy?

Actual foretelling of the future that's actually true, i.e. not the things I mentioned above.

 

[danza]

I remember almost two weeks back, after having a car accident that day, laying in bed and it dawning on me that the night before I had the accident I had a slightly odd dream. This kept me awake for a while as this kind of thing never happens to me.

The accident happnend when I was driving along on my way home from work and crashed into the rear of a black BMW X5 which caused a 4-way pile up.

The night before, I dreamt that I was driving a black BMW X5 and was totally out of control of it. Slightly odd, probably a coincidence, but odd enough to make me think.

 

[trojan698]

unconscious astral projection trying to guide you?

 

[Monkey00]

Maybe Father Christmas has got you a really good present, so he didn't want you to die before he could give it to you, waste of the elves time and all.