Reduction in hours for same pay

[Mr. Brightside]

For the last ~year I've been working approx. 50 hours per week for a small software startup. I've written the majority of the core technology. I'm paid by the hour. I feel that committing to 50 hours per week (with only 15 days of paid holiday per year [I'm not an employee]) is too much work and not enough life.

In the process of renegotiating the terms of my consulting agreement I proposed a reduction in hours, committing to 9 hours per day. This was accepted. Then (and I perhaps should have handled it better and asked for this at the same time) I proposed a 10% increase in my hourly rate so that I earn approximately the same per month.

After discussion this proposal has neither been denied nor accepted. Rather I have been advised to "think about it again" and let them know when I have.

Dilemma is complicated by the fact that at the same time, Options for 1% equity are being added to my agreement. Product is not released yet so very much still a startup - no revenue. The card of "we're a startup and have to be careful with cash" was played.

There's the phrase "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth" but at the same time, I'm a key player and I think my life needs more balance.

OcUK, what do I do?

 

[One More Solo]

Small software startup =/= gift horse

However, I can see why the company are reluctant to pay you the same money for less work. I think you have to choose between fewer hours or more money rather than ask for both - if your work life balance is poor then I'd take the cut in hours (and pay) and see the equity as a bonus if it ends up worth anything.

 

[Diagro]

Hmm as you wrote it all can you not copy write it? i dunno how that all works :/

 

[tom_e]

Hmm as you wrote it all can you not copy write it? i dunno how that all works :/

I imagine it'll be in his contract that whatever he writes while he is contracted to the company is their property, or else I could just walk out with all the stuff I've written since I started my job a year ago and leave my company right up the creek.

 

[semi-pro waster]

Hmm as you wrote it all can you not copy write it? i dunno how that all works :/

While you would normally have copyright over what you write that isn't always going to be the case, especially if you are employed by the company as normally what you produce will be explicitly the "work" of the company. It may depend on the precise terms of the contract but as a general rule that would be in the course of your employment or contract and not something that you can assert copyright over unless expressly permitted. It's also not usually a wise negotiating position to effectively blackmail them.

Mr Brightside: I think what you do now is wait, you've given them your position and they've said they'll think about it. Whether that was the most opportune method of approaching the negotiations is probably beside the point now, you've gone this far so just see how it plays out. If you've got a better alternative now then you can approach them with that but remember that you've already said you'd like to reduce your hours then said you'd like to also increase your wages - too many redefinitions of what you want from the employment might lead them to question what you are doing there. I'm sure you're right and you are a key player but I'd be wary of trying to keep renegotiating.

//edit - sorry, re-read and noticed that it is you who has been asked to think about it. In which case you need to decide if it is enough for you to simply reduce your hours, whether you really need/want that extra 10% or whether there is a compromise position that works for you. If you feel you can afford to risk pushing them then maybe the extra 10% is worth it - if you can't then you need to work out something a bit lower that you can be happy with, this might be to renegotiate in a few months when you've got a better idea about how the company is progressing.

 

[booyaka]

agreed with above - value your services but don't take the You must mask ALL swearing - Gilly. Reducing hours is fine but I would let them think about it but also consider your fall back position. 5% increase as a mutual agreement?

Recently I approached my employers about an increase in my earnings. After a discussion it was agreed to give it 6 months to see where the industry is (lots of changes) and agreed to review it then. Don't rush/push it - if they don't agree to the increase in earnings - try and get them to commit to review that situation in 6 months time or something

 

[Gilly]

I changed my terms of employment to earn the same salary with a 3 hour a week drop. Went reasonably well.

You've asked the question. You've been asked to think about it.

Was the equity agreement in place before you asked or is that something they've used as a bargaining chip?

 

[jimjamuk]

It all depends on your current circumstances - do you want / need the job? Would it be easy to get another contract in your field of work?

start ups dont have masses of cash so it may be that you either cut your hours (and therefore pay) or your compensate your current situ by asking for a payrise.

Just been through the same thing - but background is that I wasnt bothered about staying so requested 10% - got offered 3% and refused it. Within a few days once I made it clear that I'd move on I got my offer accepted.

If you are important then they probably wont want you to go but depending how hard ball you want to play then it'll end a compromise (except in this case they skipped the bit where they make you a counter offer)

 

['Harry]

Why would anyone pay you the same for working less!?

Is there any reason why they should consider this? What do you bring to this company that someone else can't?

This is the questions they will ask themselves. If they come up with nothing, then it's going to be a no.

 

[gillywibble]

Tell them you think it's a fair proposal and ask them for counter offers. Much better to put the ball in their court.

 

[anything I don't mind]

Negotiating the same pay on less hours is difficult no matter the circumstances.

 

[Mr. Brightside]

5% increase as a mutual agreement?
...
try and get them to commit to review that situation

Interesting ideas.

Was the equity agreement in place before you asked or is that something they've used as a bargaining chip?

The amendment to my agreement was prompted by them offering the 1% Options. Hence me acknowledging I could have been more tactful in the way I proposed the reduction in hours (after the amendment was given to me for signing). What prompted it was that at the same time the amendment (not yet signed) increases my notice period from 2 weeks to 2 months, which I take as (another) signal that I am of some value.

Is there any reason why they should consider this? What do you bring to this company that someone else can't?

My experience trying to recruit (an) additional developer(s) for the company suggests that yes it is difficult to find suitably skilled people.


So my options are:
a) Sign the amendment which commits me to 9 hours at the same rate (so 10% monthly decrease in pay).
b) Tell them I've thought about it and yes I still wish to increase the rate to 10% (am I mistaken for interpreting "we're not saying yes and we're not saying no" as meaning that the decision is mine?).
c) Something else, e.g. reduce hours, increase rate by 5%, and review later.

My analysis is that the only reason not to increase the rate is that it might be perceived as threatening and extracting the micky, so Mr. Brightside of today could be shooting Mr. Brightside of the future in the feet.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Do you want to work less hours?

If you can sacrifice the pay for less hours then I'd ask if the current situation be reviewed in 12 months. Given they've played the startup card, I wouldn't push them now*

*If in 12 months you are still a key player and see the company take off, then it would be hard for them to deny you your terms.

That said, you could always push for more money at your current hours. If you think the company will take off it might be worth asking for 5% pay and 5% options.

 

[D.P.]

Hmm as you wrote it all can you not copy write it? i dunno how that all works :/

nope, company owns the IP.

 

[D.P.]

For the last ~year I've been working approx. 50 hours per week for a small software startup. I've written the majority of the core technology. I'm paid by the hour. I feel that committing to 50 hours per week (with only 15 days of paid holiday per year [I'm not an employee]) is too much work and not enough life.

In the process of renegotiating the terms of my consulting agreement I proposed a reduction in hours, committing to 9 hours per day. This was accepted. Then (and I perhaps should have handled it better and asked for this at the same time) I proposed a 10% increase in my hourly rate so that I earn approximately the same per month.

After discussion this proposal has neither been denied nor accepted. Rather I have been advised to "think about it again" and let them know when I have.

Dilemma is complicated by the fact that at the same time, Options for 1% equity are being added to my agreement. Product is not released yet so very much still a startup - no revenue. The card of "we're a startup and have to be careful with cash" was played.

There's the phrase "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth" but at the same time, I'm a key player and I think my life needs more balance.

OcUK, what do I do?

It is a start-up, what do you expect. I am in a relatively similar situation, company project is in start up mode and I will have around 1-2% equity but there are long hours expected which the salary does not qualify - that is the expectation in a start up environment. It is a gamble, if the company really succeeds and sells for the value the CEO then i might get in the order of $200-600,000 if the company flops then I will have invested significant time for not much gain, that is the nature of start-ups. I could quit and work for Google for 30% more pay but have less at stakes.

TBH, it would be surprising if they let you work less hours because start up need high efficiency and their engineers to give 110%. Financially, it is much cheaper to pay 1 person at 100% than 2 people at 50%.

 

[jimjamuk]

My analysis is that the only reason not to increase the rate is that it might be perceived as threatening and extracting the micky, so Mr. Brightside of today could be shooting Mr. Brightside of the future in the feet.

Hence my comments about how much do you want the job - or would it be easier to pick something else up? Push too hard and you will end up out the door one way or another so its a fine line how much you ask for.

Most people like to think that they got something out of an agreement so take you initial request as a starting point and make a compromise in the middle somewhere.

Personally I'd take the equity and make a small cut in hours. Take that small win for now and start to make yourself invaluable to the company so you can make future requests and have half a chance of getting them agreed to.

 

[cm1179]

ask yourself who needs who more.

if they need you more, i wouldn't budge.

 

[Frxn]

I might think differently if I were in your shoes but given it's a start up I'd say go for a compromise, reduced hours and 5% increase doesn't sound too bad, or take the reduced pay and increase the equity a little bit. (of course it's a gamble but it's your future)

Assuming the bulk of the software has been written they probably don't need you around as much anyway (could be wrong of course), but I'd guess that any reduction in pay if you did decide to compromise for less than what you were earning before would be beneficial to them/their investors/whatever even if only minor.

Either way tread carefully, you don't want to sell yourself short nor do you want them replacing you!

 

[Aod]

Why would anyone pay you the same for working less!?

In that case, why would anyone pay you more for working the same amount, as happens to many people (albeit, not so many people these days) when they get a raise?

 

[Jambo]

If I was you I would focus on trying to negotiate more equity. Perfect response to the 'careful with cash' card and you can leverage what you have already agreed/proposed.