Legal\Moral position on Street Photography

Associate
Joined
30 Jul 2007
Posts
148
I took a photo on Sat, looking through the window of an optician, with the background reflected in the window. The rear of the shop had a large mirror and when I was post processing the image, I noticed that a little girl, eating an ice cream was reflected in the mirror. The image is quite complex as it is almost like a double exposure and the little girl (although a snall part of the image) certainly adds to the conposition, so I would rather not air brush her out. Several car number plates are also visible.
I have read that in stock photography any recognisable face has to sign a model release, no children are allowed and no identifiable products or trademarks can be shown
This led me to wonder about the implications of posting the image online or selling prints etc.
I can see many objections to this and when I try to do street photography I attempt to represent people as forms rather than indentifiable people.
What are your thoughts?
 
Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
32,618
Legally there is no issue in taking photos of people in public places and selling prints of them. For certain types of stock such as royalty free you are correct in that a model release would be needed. But for for editorial work, rights managed or fine-art prints then a model release isn't required.

Morally I don think there is any issue. If people go out in the public then they will be photographed and filmed by CCTV, film crews, tourists, dashboard cams, etc. if Someone wants to be hidden then it is up to them to cover their face and identity. Of course politeness goes a long way.
 
Soldato
Joined
19 Oct 2002
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6,991
Location
Gloucester UK
If you wanted to put a shot into a stock library then you would need a model release, as the stock pic could be sold internationally and other countries require releases. So the Stock company will cover all bases.

In the UK though for personal use and selling in the UK, model release forms are not required by law. So go fill your boots! You can also take pics anywhere in public of children, but obviously you need to be mindful of parents wishes etc. Also if you're seen doing it a lot expect plod to pay you a visit and an article on you in the local paper! :eek:
 
Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
32,618
I've heard people say you don't need a model release in the UK, which is entirely academic because you will need a model release to sell through RF stock anyway, but I have never managed to find any official documentation to support that.

Most websites say stuff like this:
http://www.orangeacid.net/blog/2007/06/02/photography-and-model-release-laws-in-the-uk
A photographer does not require a model release for commercial use of photographs in which the subject’s face is not clearly visible and/or recognizable.
Which is exactly the same around the world. You don't need a model release if the person is not recognizable and the face is not visible. Some stock agencies are very afraid of litigation so don't allow any person, even form the back or massively underexposed etc. However, that isn't a legal requirement and over stock agencies will happily take photos of people when you can't see their face (I have several photos of climbers that sell quite well.
 
Associate
Joined
23 Dec 2012
Posts
78
You can also take pics anywhere in public of children, but obviously you need to be mindful of parents wishes etc. Also if you're seen doing it a lot expect plod to pay you a visit and an article on you in the local paper! :eek:

Funny you should mention that as I've just had that problem in Gloucester Park of all places. Obviously it's carnival time, and the funfair, so the park is swarming with kids, including a group having their faces painted which is always a photogenic subject.

Being mindful etc., I got permission off the parents (even offered to email them copies) but that didn't prevent one of the rent-a-walkie-talkie mob from arriving, and "banning" me from taking pictures. I politely refused and continued snapping. Next one of the organisers arrived and told me that photography was forbidden! I enquired how, given that this was an event freely open to the public in a public place and that there were no notices indicating that photography was not allowed. The response was "it's because of the children" to which my response was "so?". I then reminded both of them what the law says about taking pictures of people in public places, and also pointed out that I'd obtained prior permission - even though there's no legal requirement to do so.

Clearly, they were unhappy with this as the security guard told me that he would escort me to his portacabin and confiscate my camera, whereupon he became unhappier still when I chuckled and told him he'd be breaking the law if he tried. He asked for ID and, although I didn't have to, I told him my name only - he then insisted that "photographers must carry ID to prove they're a photographer"...my response was simply "don't be silly, my camera demonstrates that I'm a photographer. Have you checked the ID of the hundred's of people snapping away with their smartphones?".

At this point two PCSO's arrived who were a little more switched on, to the extent that they agreed he couldn't touch my kit but that they thought taking pictures of people in a park without permission was "a grey area". I remarked that it might be "grey" to you, but it's perfectly black and white to me...there's no law prohibiting anyone from taking pictures in a public place and that no one - member of the public, "security" guard, or even a PCSO - does not have the right to stop me taking pictures, see the images, or make me delete them. Neither does a uniformed officer unless they have very specific grounds to do so.

By then even the watching parents were chortling away and lo, as if by magic, two of Gloucestershire's finest plods arrived and confirmed what I'd said. One did attempt to claim that I could be arrested for a breach of the peace as I might be inciting a riot if one of the parents got stroppy - I asked him if that's what he meant to say, or did he really mean that he'd arrest the stroppy parent for assault on a citizen going about a perfectly legitimate social activity?

Anyhow, enough ranting. It's just frustrating that people in the security industry, PCSO's, and even the police themselves, aren't fully aware of the law and that I have to go through this palaver almost every time I try to hone my street photography skills. And, even though I used common sense, the security guard could've done the same and stopped making an arse of himself just by checking if the parents were okay with what I was doing. He didn't really help his cause either when, after the coppers had gone, he told me he was "a professional photographer"! :rolleyes:

Needless to say, that comment is still making laugh now.

So no article in the local paper, but I have got a letter ready to email to the Chief Constable asking her to ensure that the force are brought up to speed on the law. :D
 
Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
32,618
^^^, wow, glad you stood your ground. It is shocking how so few people, especially those that should know better, have no clue about the law.

I kind of feel this is really an issue in the UK as opposed to elsewhere. In Switzerland I would sometimes go to a local park where old retired men would play chess and right next door kids would play on an elaborate obstacle course. I often took photos of both the old men and the children as a comparison of the old an new playing but sharing the same smiles and enjoyment of socializing with peers. I would sometimes ask the parents for permission but not always, no one ever care and got confused why I would ask.
 
Soldato
Joined
27 Dec 2005
Posts
17,288
Location
Bristol
The worst is when kids talk to you as there's not much comeback and it makes me feel sick to think what our world has come to.

It was a few years ago now but back when it was snowing around Christmas I was out and about with my girlfriend up near the Clifton Suspension Bridge. There were three kids playing and building a snowman, about 4, 6 and 8 years old. Their dad was walking a dog so was some way away. I snapped a couple of shots in the moment with the intention of making eye contact with the dad and talking if it seemed he wanted to, and low and behold the 8 year old came up to me and ask if I was a paedophile.

I think that's as much as I can say on the subject without posting the Professor Farnsworth picture. Truly sickening on both the part of our society and the parents. He may not have known what the word meant and was simply substituting it with "stranger" but still - I'm 26, well presented and was with my girlfriend. I'm not saying you have to be a 40 year old bald or bearded man to be a paedophile but still, it shows how willing he was to use that word and accuse.

OT: Your picture is absolutely fine to use and I would have no reservations whatsoever.
 
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