A nice engine sound comparison of 2014 F1 and IndyCar, with a bit of 2013 F1 at the end.
Poll: 2014 F1 engines
- Thread starter andicole0
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Associate
All this really says to me is that people valued the noise above all else.
So, F1 is just a lot of expensive cars being noisy going around a track.
Speed doesnt matter, as long as it sounds fast. (Cars have been getting slower since 2004, but thats never been mentioned before until the cars 'sounded' slower)
Racing doesnt matter, as long as there is 'Ear splitting' noise.
Saftey and the well being of the drivers doesn't matter, as long as there is noise.
As for the comment about 'Balls out racing' for the past races. Thats a case of some serious rose tinted glasses there. I remember people called F1, Boring1 or the 'dullest motorsport there'. This was back in the golden era too.
But hey! There was noise, so its all good.
So, F1 is just a lot of expensive cars being noisy going around a track.
Speed doesnt matter, as long as it sounds fast. (Cars have been getting slower since 2004, but thats never been mentioned before until the cars 'sounded' slower)
Racing doesnt matter, as long as there is 'Ear splitting' noise.
Saftey and the well being of the drivers doesn't matter, as long as there is noise.
As for the comment about 'Balls out racing' for the past races. Thats a case of some serious rose tinted glasses there. I remember people called F1, Boring1 or the 'dullest motorsport there'. This was back in the golden era too.
But hey! There was noise, so its all good.
There were always people who didn't like the old F1, you're never going to get 100% approval on anything.
The things that set F1 above other classes of motorsport have all been steadily eroded though to the point where it is no longer perceived as the pinnacle of motorsport. I guess it just took **** sounding engines for many people to realise that it is no longer anything special, in my opinion it's just a great example of a sport ruined by non-racers.
F1 of old...
Racing flat out for 50-70 laps needing 100% concentration was respectable.
Knowing that a single error would likely end in retirement (gravel traps or barrier) was respectable.
Seeing drivers take risks which could end badly (retirement) was respectable.
Seeing drivers actually racing and being allowed to defend position was respectable.
Seeing a driver chase closely for 50 laps and pounce on a mistake born out of the pressure was respectable.
Today we have...
Drivers cruising well within their ability for 50-70 laps due to car constraints.
Drivers making tons of mistakes and just rejoining like it's no big deal.
Drivers taking risks because they know there's no risk. (by that I mean things like stupid overtake attempts at chicanes and then just cutting the chicane when it inevitably fails and rejoining right back behind the other cars gearbox losing no time whatsoever)
Drivers just letting people pass them because it's the rules and they'll get a penalty for being too aggressive.
**** like DRS and KERS making overtaking happen every lap at the end of the same straight with the respectability of a boy racer overtaking a sunday driver.
The talent of the drivers has also been lowered with so many pay drivers and kids being groomed for team roles.
TLDR version: F1 is no longer anything special in the motor racing world, just an over-regulated race car circus aimed at entertaining the lowest common denominator in TV audiences.
The things that set F1 above other classes of motorsport have all been steadily eroded though to the point where it is no longer perceived as the pinnacle of motorsport. I guess it just took **** sounding engines for many people to realise that it is no longer anything special, in my opinion it's just a great example of a sport ruined by non-racers.
F1 of old...
Racing flat out for 50-70 laps needing 100% concentration was respectable.
Knowing that a single error would likely end in retirement (gravel traps or barrier) was respectable.
Seeing drivers take risks which could end badly (retirement) was respectable.
Seeing drivers actually racing and being allowed to defend position was respectable.
Seeing a driver chase closely for 50 laps and pounce on a mistake born out of the pressure was respectable.
Today we have...
Drivers cruising well within their ability for 50-70 laps due to car constraints.
Drivers making tons of mistakes and just rejoining like it's no big deal.
Drivers taking risks because they know there's no risk. (by that I mean things like stupid overtake attempts at chicanes and then just cutting the chicane when it inevitably fails and rejoining right back behind the other cars gearbox losing no time whatsoever)
Drivers just letting people pass them because it's the rules and they'll get a penalty for being too aggressive.
**** like DRS and KERS making overtaking happen every lap at the end of the same straight with the respectability of a boy racer overtaking a sunday driver.
The talent of the drivers has also been lowered with so many pay drivers and kids being groomed for team roles.
TLDR version: F1 is no longer anything special in the motor racing world, just an over-regulated race car circus aimed at entertaining the lowest common denominator in TV audiences.
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Associate
Racing flat out for 50-70 laps needing 100% concentration was respectable.
Incorrect, F1 has never been about balls out 100% racing. I remember Senna saying "Its all about waiting for the right moment, then acting on it" or something similar. The F1 races are too long to race 100% 'balls out'. Its just we are aware now of what the teams are doing thanks to raidos and greater coverage of the sport.
Knowing that a single error would likely end in retirement (gravel traps or barrier) was respectable.
Yeah, gravel traps did add to this. But does this add anything to the races?
Seeing drivers take risks which could end badly (retirement) was respectable.
This still exists. Cars these days seem even more fragile with all these aero wings. And with a loss of a front wing, it can cause damage to the rest of the car.
Seeing drivers actually racing and being allowed to defend position was respectable.
Racing, this still happens. Defending? Well this is much much harder to define. I think back to Monaco with Senna blocking Mansell for the last few laps. TBH, with the narrowness of Monaco, you could have put anyone in front of Mansell and he still would have a hard time passing them. Blocking has had rules applied to it to try to allow drivers to pass.
Seeing a driver chase closely for 50 laps and pounce on a mistake born out of the pressure was respectable.
This still happens, except for the 50 laps part. Waiting an hour for 1 pass would put F1 on the same level excitement as fishing. Although people like Eddie Irvine think this is how it should be. Thank god hes out of racing.
Today we have...
Drivers cruising well within their ability for 50-70 laps due to car constraints.
Crusing for an entire race? You sure about this? Yes there is fuel saving and tire management. But these are a part of racing as much as passing and racing millimeters apart from each other. 100% racing for 50-70 laps would melt the best tires in the world and tire changes only really came in once tire makers got better at making softer, stickier tires. The old hard tires from the 60s, 70s and 80s lasting multiple races are a thing of the past. BTW, last MotoGP I saw there were mentions of tires and fuel saving there too. I dont hear the MGP fans moaning about it.
Drivers making tons of mistakes and just rejoining like it's no big deal.
These tarmac run offs work better than the old gravel at slowing down cars. Shame they have the added problem of allowing drivers to run off the track.
Drivers taking risks because they know there's no risk. (by that I mean things like stupid overtake attempts at chicanes and then just cutting the chicane when it inevitably fails and rejoining right back behind the other cars gearbox losing no time whatsoever)
They loose time. There are rules etc for this, but I am getting tired typing atm.
Drivers just letting people pass them because it's the rules and they'll get a penalty for being too aggressive.
Not sure about this one. I know there is a rule about defending. 1 move to defend, I suppose that stops drivers swerving across the track multiple times 'Defending'
**** like DRS and KERS making overtaking happen every lap at the end of the same straight with the respectability of a boy racer overtaking a sunday driver.
Hmm, DRS has this effect more than KERS. But, what about how it was, when a passing was done in the pits? Or there being about 10 passes per race. F1 back in the 90's got a lot of flak for being boring because of the lack of passing. I bet some of the viewing figures dropped off because of that. DRS is there to help with the passing, but I think a bigger KERS boost could have had a better effect.
The talent of the drivers has also been lowered with so many pay drivers and kids being groomed for team roles.
I agree with the payed drivers. I really do hate them. But considering the past of F1, it starting from being a rich mans sport, you could argue that pay drivers is part of F1. (I personally would like to see pay drivers go away, with the younger drivers working their way up from the back of the grid teams.) I dont think it lowers the skill of the better drivers though. F1 drivers are still the best in the world.
TLDR version: F1 is no longer anything special in the motor racing world, just an over-regulated race car circus aimed at entertaining the lowest common denominator in TV audiences.[/QUOTE]
Im glad i deleted my reply to this, i would have broken more than a few rules.
But I will ask you this,
What motor racing do you consider PURE?
And, What motor racing series do you consider the pinnacle (in place of F1)?
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Have to say it appears rare that there is a full front wing failure
Most of the time its a side -end fence that comes off with little to no visible difference to the performance of the car (and yes commentary does usuually say "expect a loss in performance" but rarely give an idea exactly how much is lost)
Magnusson was a little unlucky (and I still think Kimi's Ferrari understeered into the front wing, yet KM got penalised) but not sure how much that end fence cost him.
I cant remember who, but I recall a complete front wing failure this season but imo this is still pretty rare and was from a driver error rather than a mechanical issue with the car, but again its not exactly as though this happens every race to a front runner.
Sometimes I think its a little too easy to get away with losing a wheel or breaking a front wing. Yes you lose time making your way around to the pits and the (possible) additional stop time, but is this enough of a penalty for someone who has made a mistake by going off.
Obviously on the other hand, another car breaking your front wing shouldnt be as much of a penalty but I guess its the luck / unluck of the draw.
Soldato
Great post. And you're right about the old F1
edit=You should send that to the FIA\FOM and all the teams
Just fabulous. Great driver, awesome engine and the best circuit in the world.THIS is the racing I miss. Proper engines, actual racing, not worrying about tires, fuel, no DRS / KERS blah blah
Hmm, so there has been unanimous agreement to setup a working group to increase the volume of the V6 engines.
A welcome idea, but with nothing but a straight pipe currently in place following the turbo, what exactly can they do? Its not like there are any silencers in the way the FIA will let them remove? I have a horrible feeling this is going to result in an arrifical method of generating noise, which will be imposed by regulation.
We shall see.
A welcome idea, but with nothing but a straight pipe currently in place following the turbo, what exactly can they do? Its not like there are any silencers in the way the FIA will let them remove? I have a horrible feeling this is going to result in an arrifical method of generating noise, which will be imposed by regulation.
We shall see.
Soldato
A couple of 6x9s, a 150W Amp from Halfords and a copy of the "Ferrari F93A's greatest hits".
Who'd have thought it was that simple?
Who'd have thought it was that simple?
Soldato
Did anyone watch the BBC replay and think(like me) that the engine sound was turned up?
Soldato
I can imagine it now, Rosberg going for an overtake on Hamilton changes his car into VW Beetle sound mode and turns it up to 11 to distract his opponent, meanwhile Loldarardo comes out of the pits just behind Gutierrez so his car automatically changes into Chitty Chitty Bang Bang mode as an automated warning signal.
The car industy isn't always right.
The car industy isn't always right.
Soldato
THIS is the racing I miss. Proper engines, actual racing, not worrying about tires, fuel, no DRS / KERS blah blah
All I hear is traction control
Associate
I only watched a bit of the BBC coverage but now that I'm thinking about it I think the cars did sound louder in comparison to the sky version.
Wonder if it was intentional (would be my guess) or just a quirk of it being taped and played later?
Soldato
Sky is in Dolby Digital, BBC is not. Could be a quirk of the stereo downmix?
Drivers have always driven within the car. Fuel restraints are nothing new, heck even during the last of the v8s cars were underfuelled in the expectation of safety cars or being able to create a buffer and then ease off to the line. The only time when cars were possibly flat out was during the last refuelling era when the tyres would outlast the tank.
If you have actually watched any of the races this year you will have seen that DRS doesn't just allow another driver to cruise past another car, it just puts the 2nd driver in the position where an overtake may be possible, just ask Rosberg on this. The alternative is the situation Alonso had with Petrov, despite being 3 or seconds a lap quicker he couldn't actually make the pass due to the aero buffer between the cars.
Not the best drivers in the world? Why is it that Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton, Rosberg, Hulkenburg etc, who last time I checked all received a salary are at the front?
Not the pinnacle of motor sport. As already asked, what do you think is? Indy Car is just about a spec series these days. LMP1 has vastly more rules regarding the fuelling of engines compared to F1 and now there is BoP to even things out further with sanctions being applied at Le Mans if any team is discovered to be sand bagging.
Associate
I couldn't care less about the sound changing. I prefer the gruntier less annoying sound. I think it brings F1 closer to road cars and that seems logical due to the car manufacturers involved in the sport.
The cars look fast and are still going the same speed.
All I want is exciting racing.
The cars look fast and are still going the same speed.
All I want is exciting racing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/26943423
I agree with Weber. Also its never about the engine noise and all about the racing.
I agree with Weber. Also its never about the engine noise and all about the racing.
Just 6% spread so far between the hates, likes and don't cares.