Caporegime
nothing wrong with flip ups
cops ride with em open so must be legal
cops ride with em open so must be legal
Full vs Flip Helmets and Glasses
- Thread starter gcaster
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Soldato
Cheers, will take a look this evening!
Soldato
Associate
It has to be P and J homologated for it to be legal (which one would hope that the police ones are). This can simply mean that it is held in the upright position securely and does not necessarily require it move through 180 degrees.
Just read that it's a technicality. You must ride with an approved helmet. Some flip helmets are only approved with the lid down so if you ride with the lid up it's no longer an approved helmet. You can get flip lids that are approved as an open lid helmet therefore legal in any state.
Although that's only from comments other forums, no idea that's actually true
Associate
Not sure if there is an official website that describes the different standards but helmet manufacturers such as Caberg claim that P/J means you can ride with it in both positions. So that should be a little more reliable than forum hearsay at least.
Caporegime
it does feel weird with it up anyway tbh
Soldato
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In the same way that it's not actually illegal to ride in shorts and flip-flops - You can if you want... But I'd not recommend it!!
Associate
In the same way that it's not actually illegal to ride in shorts and flip-flops - You can if you want... But I'd not recommend it!!
Well I am under the impression that helmets are a little more regulated than flip-flops. I'm largely going by the information that helmet manufacturers present but the implication seems to be that to ride with a helmet not homologated for the configuration in which you are actually using it, this is no more legal than not wearing one at all. Albeit a little more difficult to confirm on casual inspection though. Correct me if I am wrong.
Soldato
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Sort of... More that it may be perfectly legal to do, with the right helmet and all... but a stone chip kicked up into your face at 70mph may reiterate my assertation that 'legal' does not always mean 'good idea'.
Associate
Sort of... More that it may be perfectly legal to do, with the right helmet and all... but a stone chip kicked up into your face at 70mph may reiterate my assertation that 'legal' does not always mean 'good idea'.
That is kind of what I am saying. The right type of homologation makes the right (ie legal) helmet. Good idea or not. I am not opposed to open faced but personal preference is for a full length visor, so I don't think I would choose to ride with a flip front up, legal or not on a given model.
Yeah, I had an instructor very confidently tell me it's illegal, upon looking on the web though there doesn't seem to be any facts spring up to corroborate it, only hearsay.
Associate
http://www.shoei-europe.com/uk/homologation
https://www.gov.uk/motorcycle-helmet-law
Well, the Shoei link suggests that the ECE standard specifies whether the helmet is full (P) or open faced (J). This standard is one of the options that qualify a helmet for use in the UK. So my take on it is that if you have a flip up that is only ECE homologated as a full face, using it in open faced means that it is effectively not homologated and therefore not road legal. If it is homologated for both, all is right with the world, etc. Does this make sense? Not sure how the other standards listed effect the situation though.
Please note, not claiming expertise here. I did my CBT just over 5 weeks ago and have been riding for about 4 on a 125cc scooter (yes, it is not a "proper" bike but it does what I need it to for now). But this is of interest as I am shopping for a flip front or full faced helmet, since it did not take long to figure out that an open faced is a poor choice for going faster and less pleasant weather.
Edit: Oh and my CBT instructor also said it was illegal and indicated that only the 180 degree flip overs were legal but more recent reading suggests that it does just need to be securely held out of the way.
Associate
Never going to get a flip lid again! Last year I had 2 wasps fly into my face while pottering about. I'm gonna keep my face covered
Saw chap on a hospital bed (harley) bin it infront of my very eyes about 3 years ago. Pootling along, took a stone to the face which caused him to lose it. Not much left of his arm either, but he did look cool in his Tshirt or so he thought.
Never will wear a open face helmet no matter what i ride. Internal visor down is good enough for around town with the main visor up.
Never will wear a open face helmet no matter what i ride. Internal visor down is good enough for around town with the main visor up.
Soldato
ive got a shoei neotech flip, its my first helmet but as i wear specs the flip up is handy when going to the bank/petrol station/shop. my only gripe is my specs steam up i the visor is fully shut anti fog spray helps a little but i gotta keep the visor open a bit. built in sunglasses is handy
I almost, ALMOST bought a Shoei Neotech but in the end decided the times I would use the flip up (Shops/Petrol) would not make up for the cons of a flip (added weight, complexity and some reduction in safety)
Ended up with a GT Air which I am really happy with, uses the same new integrated visor as the Neotech system. Bloody brilliant, so much better than my HJC before, the difference in quality really shows.
Ended up with a GT Air which I am really happy with, uses the same new integrated visor as the Neotech system. Bloody brilliant, so much better than my HJC before, the difference in quality really shows.
Soldato
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I only use full face helmets. Mainly because of what I have read about flip lids failing on heavy frontal impacts, causing fatality.
Riding with the lid up is just silly anyway. Stones, bugs, dust etc etc can all impair your vision and control of your bike if you get something in your face, potentially leading to an accident.
Yeah sure, flips are more convenient, but I am not convinced they are as safe (even if they do hold BSI ratings).
I guess it is just personal choice at the end of the day. I use an Arai Corsair RX-7. Great lid, but a little noiser than some.
I also cringe when I see people riding without protective gear. Met a few down at the physio ward where my dad was too. One young lad just popped out for milk. Ended up with a permanently deformed leg, and barely able to walk
Riding with the lid up is just silly anyway. Stones, bugs, dust etc etc can all impair your vision and control of your bike if you get something in your face, potentially leading to an accident.
Yeah sure, flips are more convenient, but I am not convinced they are as safe (even if they do hold BSI ratings).
I guess it is just personal choice at the end of the day. I use an Arai Corsair RX-7. Great lid, but a little noiser than some.
I also cringe when I see people riding without protective gear. Met a few down at the physio ward where my dad was too. One young lad just popped out for milk. Ended up with a permanently deformed leg, and barely able to walk
Associate
I have a Shark Evoline and am happy to accept the trade-off against a normal helmet (weight, noise, risk) for the comfort & convenience. I always take it on/off with the chin bar open. Comes off without needing to remove specs and I just hold them in my mouth when I put it on. Never had any bother in shops/petrol stations with it, apart from one time coming into work when I forgot to put the sunvisor up.
It's homologated with the chin bar up or down, so legal either way. More importantly the visor is separate so you can have open face with the visor down. I rarely ride it that way though, as I prefer the security of the chin bar.
Nolan N44 looks pretty cool, I'd love to try one on. Think I'd miss being able to flip the chin bar onto the back of my head though, rather than having it as a separate piece.
It's homologated with the chin bar up or down, so legal either way. More importantly the visor is separate so you can have open face with the visor down. I rarely ride it that way though, as I prefer the security of the chin bar.
Nolan N44 looks pretty cool, I'd love to try one on. Think I'd miss being able to flip the chin bar onto the back of my head though, rather than having it as a separate piece.
Associate
Got my flip front today. I tried the Roof Desmo but the XL fitted pretty small and I could not be bothered to find a 2XL. A HJC Symax seemed to fit until I tried to close the front. The Caberg Duke was a touch big on top but pressed on my jaw just a bit too much.
I ended up getting the Caberg Modus. Not the cheapest but less than some I was considering. Not ridden with it yet but it feels just about perfect. P/J homologated and the front sits closer to the helmet than some, due to a spring loaded mechanism that also avoids the need for a separate catch to hold it up. I have limited experience but visibility seems to be about average. Impressions so far are that it is a really nice lid though. Not going to be able to try it out properly for a week or so.
I ended up getting the Caberg Modus. Not the cheapest but less than some I was considering. Not ridden with it yet but it feels just about perfect. P/J homologated and the front sits closer to the helmet than some, due to a spring loaded mechanism that also avoids the need for a separate catch to hold it up. I have limited experience but visibility seems to be about average. Impressions so far are that it is a really nice lid though. Not going to be able to try it out properly for a week or so.