Soldato
seriously?! you'd never race if that was the case. F1 has been racing like this for years. What needs to change is trucks going onto the track, they need to be have "skirts" like tanks do to stop cars going under them.
Japanese Grand Prix 2014, Suzuka - Race 15/19
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
seriously?! you'd never race if that was the case. F1 has been racing like this for years. What needs to change is trucks going onto the track, they need to be have "skirts" like tanks do to stop cars going under them.
It was raining at the time. It wasn't a normal scenario at all, sometimes a tractor can come on without a safety car. With increasingly heavy rain? No way!
The second a tractor goes trackside in rainy conditions safety car conditions should be called.
Jules' father has just said on French TV that his son is being operated on and is in a critical state.
I hope he pulls through, has such talent.
https://twitter.com/francetvinfo
I hope he pulls through, has such talent.
https://twitter.com/francetvinfo
Soldato
Sutil went off, then around 1 minute 50 seconds later Bianchi went off (camera cuts back to Sutil's car with steam behind the tractor around 2 minutes after Sutil went off and the marshalls giving the medical assistance required signal). 50 seconds after that gesture was made the safety and medical cars were deployed.
With a tractor off to the side to the one of the worst corners, with little run off, worsening conditions and most of the cars on the wrong tyre, that the safety car wasn't deployed is odd, and as it turns out has injured someone, likely seriously or, God forbid, even gravely.
I understand he's under pressure from fans and the TV networks, but Charlie is going to have to answer some very difficult questions over this.
Completely agree. There are some very questionable decisions on the lead up to the incident. Of-course hindsight is 20/20 and Charlie usually does a good job, but questions need to be asked.
Soldato
Nail on the head. If there are workers on the circuit it's an instant double waved yellow which means slow down and prepare to stop.
The Safety Car should only come out for a multiple accident, it's not american oval racing where a tiny bit of trim falls off a car and everything goes on hiatus for at least 5 minutes.
OK, so that doesn't help much now. Bianchi most likely was going too fast for the conditions, and that's his sole responsibility. Nanny state health and safety won't help much in those situations, best we can do is learn from it.
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Are you completely ignoring the severity of the weather? This isn't death racing...
Soldato
But lets be honest, had Bianchi not have crashed the accident would have been cleared and racing would have continued with drivers continuing to move to full wets. It would have been a non-issue. Obviously its impossible to anticipate aquaplaning, but imho speed should have been reduced under waved yellows for this not to happen.
I don;t see it as a direct failure of the FIA personally. Their hands are tied either way in a race situation.
I do however agree a more consistent approach to waved yellows should be adopted. Speed limit, or sector time limit.
Its to easy for drivers to think they can gain a marginal advantage by just giving a bit of a lift.
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Stop generalising. No one has suggested a safety car is required for every recovery.
In this specific instance, recovery was being attempted at a notoriously tricky corner whilst the rain was coming down harder and harder and track conditions were deteriorating and with most of the field on intermediate tyres.
In that specific situation, deploying the SC before the crane attempted recovery of the car was a total no-brainer and the race director and marshals acted stupidly. All the cars should have been slowed right down as soon as possible which is the very reason for a SC.
Soldato
No. They've raced in much worse. Adelaide '89, Japan '07 just off the top of my head.
F1 is a dangerous sport, and it's supposed to be that way. It's only in the last 30 years it has been relatively safe where drivers mostly walk away from destroyed cars. In the 60s and 70s there were typically a couple of fatal accidents per season. After that it was '82 then '86 (although in private testing) and the awful Imola '94 weekend.
Soldato
As I said though:
In standard dry conditions with no outside influences (oil, debris, etc) I'd agree, but one car has already aquaplaned off there on the wrong tyres, so there's a large chance another will do the same.
It happened on the same Dunlop corner in 1994. Gianni Morbidelli aquaplaned off, marshals came out on track to recover the car, then a lap or 2 later Brundle did exactly the same, narrowly missed a tractor himself but hit a marshal badly breaking his leg.
It's been happening for years and I have been been against that for years. So many of them guilty of it. Shows a complete lack of respect for the guys trying to help them, volunteers.
125 mph section, lift my hand and not even slow down but show I'm in control. Genius. All well and good if something doesn't go wrong. They should have to hit the pitlane speed limiter in the section where there's an accident and can release it for the next race track sector. Force the drivers to do something.
Were there tractors on the side of the track on one of the most difficult corners in heavy rain in those races?
If the rules stated "Whenever a tractor needs to go trackside in heavy rain a safety car must be deployed" that would still be an extremely rare set of circumstances that seem entirely reasonable for safety...
At the time there were lots of drivers on different tyres, lots of bad grip scenarios and heavy rain. To add to that Sutil went off because of lack of grip. In my mind the call should have been obvious.
The "this is F1 not some young boys/American sport" argument is so ridiculous...
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Did he actually say that on TV? As I don't think that tweet translates as 'operated on' and no one else is reporting that.
Totally agree with you but will he? Is anyone in a position to take him to task over this? Is there any procedure under which the race director's actions can be investigated? I honestly have no idea about this.
I genuinely shocked by the failure to deploy the SC. Yes they've been criticised in the past for using it in situations that some have perceived as unnecessary but they've always said it's best to err on the side of caution and I can understand that.
Here they've done the complete opposite. The situation clearly called for an immediate SC to safely recover Sutil's car but none was deployed and Bianchi has been seriously injured as a result.
Of course we don't know the exact circumstances. For all we know the marshals could have decided to recover the car without talking to race control or even against their explicit instructions but, even so, the buck stops with the race director.
Soldato
It translates as
#BIANCHI The French driver Jules Bianchi is being carried to the hospital in Suzuka (Japan) bit.ly/1sW0ZCy
The trouble is drivers are getting younger and less experience every year and with so much safety features around a track (run offs etc) the drivers feel as though they have nothing to fear from going off so they drive wrecklessly. IMO
Back in the day the best drivers were those experienced enough to push the boundaries, these days everybody is doing it because they aren't scared of losing it.
They need to make going off the track punishable by retirement again so drivers won't be taking risks all of the time, back in the day just finishing an F1 race was an achievement in itself.. that's how much it's been dumbed down.
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Soldato
You obviously think that. I don't agree.
As long as we learn from the experience, that's fine. Bianchi was likely going too fast for the conditions and/or made a mistake. People have to take personal responsibility for their actions, like ignoring double waved yellow flags. Throwing a safety car out for all and sundry is a ridiculous notion.
It states on the ticket "Motorsport is dangerous". If you want to go down the ultimate Health and Safety route then they might as well cancel all motorsport now.
Soldato
I have to say that when they were attending to Sutil's car, I was thinking how crazy it was for the marshalls to be standing right in the path of any car that could potentially go off at the same spot.
Didn't even think of the JCB being a massive danger at the time.
Didn't even think of the JCB being a massive danger at the time.