Justified or gun happy?

Soldato
Joined
8 Dec 2008
Posts
5,908
Whoah, Police drive by basically. What on Earth were they doing?

Yes, the kid clearly was in the wrong but he wasn't given much chance was he?

That situation certainly could've been handled better.
 
Permabanned
Joined
5 Jun 2010
Posts
15,459
Whoah, Police drive by basically. What on Earth were they doing?

Yes, the kid clearly was in the wrong but he wasn't given much chance was he?

That situation certainly could've been handled better.

How much of a chance do you give him?

How could it have been handled better?
 
Soldato
Joined
7 Dec 2012
Posts
17,494
Location
Gloucestershire
How much of a chance do you give him?

How could it have been handled better?

They could have at least ascertained that he was a threat. They didn't even see a gun before killing him.

We can talk about "he shouldn't be carrying a toy gun" or "the gun looked real", but police shouldn't be killing kids based on a report from the public and the "suspect" flinching when police jump out at him.
 
Soldato
Joined
28 Oct 2003
Posts
5,454
Location
Worthington-on-sea
Confronted by armed police officers, pointing at me would make me compliant.
Being told to obey from a car (Or just when they're talking to me) wouldn't make me compliant. I don't respond to "orders" being barked at me.

Again, if you've seen the CCTV, the kid wasn't "confronted" the officer literally shot him within a second of being out of the car.

In his situation, I'd never imagine being shot at.

In yours. I would. Your situation being radically different to a point they're not directly comparable.

Its just you said "Even today if I was doing no wrong, I wouldn't just simply "obey". It'd never cross my mind that someone's going to put me down." But then say that given the same situation as me, you would.

I'm sure that if I had reached into the door pocket and pulled out an imitation firearm things wouldn't have gone so well.

May I ask what for :D

It was a case of mistaken identity. Well, they were after me but I hadn't done anything wrong. Someone reported I had a gun - it was a waterpistol.
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Oct 2011
Posts
4,260
It was a case of mistaken identity. Well, they were after me but I hadn't done anything wrong. Someone reported I had a gun - it was a waterpistol.

Happened to a family friends son. Hard stopped just after dropping his mate home... (his mate was the one with the water pistol)

So he told the officers it was in his house... knocked down his door and stormed the place.
 
Soldato
Joined
28 Oct 2003
Posts
5,454
Location
Worthington-on-sea
Also, to add some context to recent incidents of US police shooting people. 318 US police officers killed in the last 5 years (by assault, deliberate gunfire, vehicular assault or stabbed). I think it's justifiable that they're pretty wary about threatening behaviour and perceived risk.
 
Caporegime
Joined
18 Sep 2009
Posts
30,097
Location
Dormanstown.
Its just you said "Even today if I was doing no wrong, I wouldn't just simply "obey". It'd never cross my mind that someone's going to put me down." But then say that given the same situation as me, you would.

I was putting myself in that 12 year olds shoes, as in now. If I had a car barking at me, I wouldn't expect to be put down.

Your situation is entirely different.

I bet the kid didn't even see his face before he had a hole in his stomach.
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Oct 2011
Posts
4,260
I was putting myself in that 12 year olds shoes, as in now. If I had a car barking at me, I wouldn't expect to be put down.

Your situation is entirely different.

I bet the kid didn't even see his face before he had a hole in his stomach.

Don't leave the house with a gun (real or fake). I wouldn't do it in this country (UK), let alone in the US where every police officer has a gun and most of its citizens...

I can't help but feel this is the crux of the whole thing. Poor decision.
 
Soldato
Joined
7 Dec 2012
Posts
17,494
Location
Gloucestershire
Don't leave the house with a gun (real or fake). I wouldn't do it in this country (UK), let alone in the US where every police officer has a gun and most of its citizens...

I can't help but feel this is the crux of the whole thing. Poor decision.

Cops gonna cop, yeah?

You just gotta stay out of their way. Be a good citizen, and hope no joker decides to tell them you have a gun for the lols. Cos then they'll charge at you in their car before shooting you for flinching. And it'll be your fault.

Remember, they didn't see the gun - just someone reported a child scaring folk with what might be a fake gun.
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Oct 2011
Posts
4,260
Cops gonna cop, yeah?

You just gotta stay out of their way. Be a good citizen, and hope no joker decides to tell them you have a gun for the lols. Cos then they'll charge at you in their car before shooting you for flinching. And it'll be your fault.

Remember, they didn't see the gun - just someone reported a child scaring folk with what might be a fake gun.

But he did have a gun? So it wasn't someone ringing the police for 'the lols'.

Someone reported a child for what might be a fake fun. Might not be. Police do not take chances.

If they did and more people died you would probably be on here herping and derping about how the police are too soft.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
7,781
Location
Surrey
Mistake no.1 - drive right up to the target.

It was only going to go one way from that point. Police jump out, kid doesn't realise the severity of the situation, police officer shoots, dead kid. If the kid had a real gun then the police put themselves at huge risk and might have been shot themselves.
 
Soldato
Joined
7 Dec 2012
Posts
17,494
Location
Gloucestershire
But he did have a gun? So it wasn't someone ringing the police for 'the lols'.

Someone reported a child for what might be a fake fun. Might not be. Police do not take chances.

If they did and more people died you would probably be on here herping and derping about how the police are too soft.

Whether he had a gun or not, they killed him off the back of an uncertain report from a single member of the public. They didn't ascertain he was a threat, didn't see a weapon, just killed him after scaring the **** out of him by screaming up to him in their car and jumping out.

"OK, but he had a gun". What kind of bull-excrement is that? It's seriously scary that people think it's ok to shoot a child off the back of the information the police had at that point. A single, uncertain call from the public, and a child flinching. That's all they had.
 
Soldato
Joined
12 May 2014
Posts
5,225
Whether he had a gun or not, they killed him off the back of an uncertain report from a single member of the public. They didn't ascertain he was a threat, didn't see a weapon, just killed him after scaring the **** out of him by screaming up to him in their car and jumping out.

"OK, but he had a gun". What kind of bull-excrement is that? It's seriously scary that people think it's ok to shoot a child off the back of the information the police had at that point. A single, uncertain call from the public, and a child flinching. That's all they had.

In the police statement they said they saw him pick the gun up off the table and put it in his waistloop (?) and that he lifted his shirt up and went for the gun when they came to him. I admit it's hard to tell in the CCTV footage but you can't be throwing out information because it doesn't suit you
 
Associate
Joined
18 Feb 2009
Posts
1,880
Location
Midlands
Anyone assuming the police were in the right here, please watch the video, then come back and tell me that was an appropriate and measured response.


It was more akin to a drive by shooting then a police confrontation, and if that's how they are trained, well, **** me.


The fact that the police lied is testament to them knowing they were in the wrong.

They said he was with a group of people, and they shouted at him 3 times to put the gun down.

Watch the video, from when the car drives up, try and say "drop your gun" 3 times between then and when the kid goes down.

(hint: you can't)
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Oct 2011
Posts
4,260
Whether he had a gun or not, they killed him off the back of an uncertain report from a single member of the public. They didn't ascertain he was a threat, didn't see a weapon, just killed him after scaring the **** out of him by screaming up to him in their car and jumping out.

"OK, but he had a gun". What kind of bull-excrement is that? It's seriously scary that people think it's ok to shoot a child off the back of the information the police had at that point. A single, uncertain call from the public, and a child flinching. That's all they had.

Your deliberately misreading what I put.

You said:

no joker decides to tell them you have a gun for the lols. Cos then they'll charge at you in their car before shooting you for flinching. And it'll be your fault.

That's why I said he did have a gun. The caller didn't call the police for 'the lols'.

Whether or not they ascertained he had a weapon on him is another matter which is important. Where did you get the information that they didn't? That video is very poor quality.

But agree, if they did not ascetain if he actually had a weapon before shooting then it's wrong. Not that you will be able to prove that now anyways.

Whether or not he is 'a threat' goes hand in hand, imo, to whether or not he had a weapon. Got a weapon, you are a threat. Again, hinges on whether or not the police saw said weapon.

But this could have all been avoided with better parenting and some common sense from the boy. Who leaves the house with a imitation firearm, then waves it around in public pointing it at people?
 
Soldato
Joined
7 Dec 2012
Posts
17,494
Location
Gloucestershire
In the police statement they said they saw him pick the gun up off the table and put it in his waistloop (?) and that he lifted his shirt up and went for the gun when they came to him. I admit it's hard to tell in the CCTV footage but you can't be throwing out information because it doesn't suit you

Watch the footage mate. There's no way they saw him do that with the gun. Look how fast they arrived, the angle they arrived at, and the time from when he got up to when they arrived.
 
Back
Top Bottom