Just dropped a deposit on some M Power - Trackday Project Car

[NathWraith]

You should just get an extra set of wheels and slicks, rather than using a half way house between road/track tyres.

You want your M3 to be a race car then give it race tyres.

It would be like making a jack and coke with pepsi instead of coke. Similar but not as good.

 

[rjk]

are you planning on moving to slicks in conjunction to the half cage being fitted?

 

[Gibbo]

are you planning on moving to slicks in conjunction to the half cage being fitted?

Yes, wheels I have for slicks ready, but do not wish to run slicks until cage and harnesses are in correct positioning, just for safety really, again taking advice from others here which is well justified.

Advan V105 will be here this week and they will be my road and wet track tyres.

 

[Alibaba99]

When connecting the MAP sensor you also need to use the correct, very stiff walled, tubing. Don't been tempted to use silicone tubing as this will expand and contract with the pressure pulses from the manifold which will affect the readings.

 

[Gibbo]

Jonny

Thanks for the advice, managed to secure it to a bracket already in place, it is very secure hardly any movement and is actually very hard to see, once wires are plumbed into the DME box which it is next to then to most they would never spot it:

Thanks for the advice and much happy with it now, far less cowboy!

When connecting the MAP sensor you also need to use the correct, very stiff walled, tubing. Don't been tempted to use silicone tubing as this will expand and contract with the pressure pulses from the manifold which will affect the readings.

Using the tubing that was supplied.

 

[HummuH1]

Never really knew about heat cycles, learn something new everyday, can't wait for new tyres to be here.

Bear in mind same applies to slicks too, although the amount of rubber on the tyre becomes more of an influencing factor.

Will be interested to see how your lap times compare. Unless it's a factory built race car, there's not as much difference between slicks and good 1B tyres in a comparative compound as people might believe, particularly on shorter tracks. When you take into account the downsides of running slicks (increased brake temperature/wear, increased forces on the suspension, increased transmission wear, potential for oil starvation etc) then 1B tyres start to make a lot of sense.

They also have the added advantage of working if you turn up at the track and it's belting it down without the need for a 2nd set of wheels/tyres.

If I was running a road/track car again, I wouldn't be using slicks when on track, but that's just my personal opinion, like you, many do and it works for them.

 

[acemastr]

Slicks are a nightmare to get temperature into and keep it, you may find you're slower on them until they've gotten up to temperature (which will take longer)

 

[Gibbo]

Bear in mind same applies to slicks too, although the amount of rubber on the tyre becomes more of an influencing factor.

Will be interested to see how your lap times compare. Unless it's a factory built race car, there's not as much difference between slicks and good 1B tyres in a comparative compound as people might believe, particularly on shorter tracks. When you take into account the downsides of running slicks (increased brake temperature/wear, increased forces on the suspension, increased transmission wear, potential for oil starvation etc) then 1B tyres start to make a lot of sense.

They also have the added advantage of working if you turn up at the track and it's belting it down without the need for a 2nd set of wheels/tyres.

If I was running a road/track car again, I wouldn't be using slicks when on track, but that's just my personal opinion, like you, many do and it works for them.

I'm doing it as it works out much cheaper and all my mates with M3's being running slicks for years, the difference in grip over cups is rather mind boggling.

The main advantage however is cost, a set of 18" cups is now just shy of £1000 and based on 24 heat cycles will last me 3-4 track days.

Let say slicks only last me one track day, though most seem to get 2-3 with no issue, but a set cost me £100 so the savings are vast and the advantage if I have no risk of destroying my road tyres and having to drive home on illegal tyres.

Slicks are a nightmare to get temperature into and keep it, you may find you're slower on them until they've gotten up to temperature (which will take longer)

Slicks are lethal on the first lap or two, very low grip but the way I drive I am very smooth and progressive so I never go out and try to set a lap time, I build speed up so I won't be pushing until 3rd or 4th lap anyway.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

That looks better, wont be shook around and cause issues later with rusty pipes..... guess how I know about that one at the mo!

MAP is often used as a correction factor on Alpha N setups so its no suprise to see it feature on a calibration thats Throttle angle (Alpha) against numer of revs per min (N).

Makes sense with the ITB to need a rail or use the vac booster now. I thought it was only CSL for some reason. With a correction feature for MAP its less sensitive to pulses and fractional delays to readings than a pure speed density map ( rpm vs MAP lookup) which is why its not ideal to take from there but its certainly better than just using one cylinder reading!

Turbotoaster comparison removed. Just need a picture with Hovis BREAD to confirm theres nt toast

 

[Gibbo]

That looks better, wont be shook around and cause issues later with rusty pipes..... guess how I know about that one at the mo!

MAP is often used as a correction factor on Alpha N setups so its no suprise to see it feature on a calibration thats Throttle angle (Alpha) against numer of revs per min (N).

Makes sense with the ITB to need a rail or use the vac booster now. I thought it was only CSL for some reason. With a correction feature for MAP its less sensitive to pulses and fractional delays to readings than a pure speed density map ( rpm vs MAP lookup) which is why its not ideal to take from there but its certainly better than just using one cylinder reading!

Turbotoaster comparison removed. Just need a picture with Hovis BREAD to confirm theres nt toast

Finished:

Looks completely standard.


To help others I found this useful:

Mine were same colours, only difference is on the GM sensor pin 2 is the signal wire and goes into the blank pin 18 on the ECU block connector. The power and ground are as per above on pin/colours.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

Got the ECU's swapped over, pretty damn easy actually, reminded me of connecting up a modular power supply.

Bad news, I've being sold a tampered/bricked ECU, potentially un-aware by the seller as it was working, but my coolant guage goes to red on ignition and DSC remains on so tell tale sales of tampering.

Fortunately a chap called M3Carbon on M3cutters knows these ECU's inside out and has offered to open it up and unbrick it for me for a fee which is not to bad and I shall try to claim back from the seller. Because it is in this state it is not possible to talk to the ECU via OBD, so it has to be opened up.

But a further delay and cost.

 

[turbotoaster]

hey gibbo, im looking at donnington on the 30th of march if your free?

 

[Gibbo]

hey gibbo, im looking at donnington on the 30th of march if your free?

Should be let me know who your booking via and when and I'll book on, will have to do it on normal road tyres as doubt have slicks organised by then but still up for it.

 

[Gibbo]

Big update time, only because I've being slacking with updates here:



The judder I was experiencing on up-changes in S6 in the 7000-8000rpm range, was definitely not wheelspin, jury is still out if it was wheel hop or not but I never experienced it on the stock heavier wheels with 255/40/18 and it only started on recent trackday at Anglesey. Never had an issue on previous track days, but they were admittedly warmer and I had tyres that still had rubber and were not hard plastic.

However the cups which gave me zero confidence and very little grip due to going through far to many heat cycles were also pretty knackered:

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPS!!


This judder I was still experiencing but I tried a clutch re-set using DIS/GT3 instead of INPA which made the gear changes rather lazy and subdued and caused slur, but after a few runs in S6 the judder seem to go away. So I am thinking maybe the last track day hot spotted the clutch or flywheel and the judder was coming from the clutch and being transmitted down the propshaft into the diff and hence the rear judder sensation. The cars clutch slur is all but gone now in S6 and the changes are going back to their usual firm but also car friendly and simply feel efficient yet firm.

After the reset I drove it around in S3 in full attack which incurred quite a bit of slur but suspect it was needed to burn any rubbish of the friction plate surfaces, I shall see how I go along and if it returns I shall refit the stock wheels to try and rule out wheel hop.


The car had a full inspection today, no lose bolts, nothing broken and the differential is very tight with only a very small amount of up and down play on the drivers side which is how the M differential should be, so all is well.

Whilst it was in the garage I had the front suspension refreshed, well new track rod ends as I've never done them in my ownership and as ECP had a great deal on Lemforder it made sense, I did lollipop bushes some months ago so now the front of the car is all brand new except the main front arms but they show no signs of wear/play. I also replaced both upper and lower steering column as at 100k miles I would expect some play, my car had no play but the steering wheel did not feel as tight as it could be.


New parts:

The old track rod ends that came out actually seemed fine, no play and the boots fine so shall keep as spare or sell. The steering column also had no play but the new parts had far higher resistance to the movement and after now driving the car the steering feels better for sure, a lot more positive on the straight ahead and feels better weighted, so a good shout to the people who mentioned it is worth doing. The Mechanic had the lower part done in like 20 minutes, the upper part took about an hour as was real fiddly but in short you can probably get away with just the lower part and as it cost so little from BMW it is well worth doing if your steering has play or feels very numb and light.

I also had the car aligned, the thrust angle in the rear was not straight ahead, only 3 minutes and camber was 30 minutes greater on one side, maybe these could have being contributing to the judder if the differential was getting upset by it though I feel my hunch on it being the clutch hot spotting is most likely more accurate.

With the new tyres, complete new suspension throughout the car and all bushes/mounts refreshed it feels bloody awesome to drive, so tight and the new tyres are nothing but impressive.

I also dropped the spare diff of with the powder coaters today to get it blasted and painted in a silly colour.
Then end of week I hope to drop it of with diff builder who shall put the 3.91 final ratio in which is REM treated which helps reduce transmission losses and noise along with a complete bearing/seal refresh. They will also check the LSD plates at same time and comment on lifespan, fingers crossed. I shall also get them to install the differential, I shall then post the ECU off for CSL conversion and I can finally flash Frank's TTFS tune to the car and enjoy how it is drive on map sensor along with a 3.91 ratio in the car. I cannot wait!

One question, will there be a running in period for the diff, if so does anyone know what it shall be and of course I shall ask the guys building it for their advice to.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

Purchased a spare diff in pretty much unknown condition, had it cleaned up and painted an obnoxious colour:

I have brand new cover plate to go on with three new diff mount bushes so don't worry about the paint being on cover plate as a new one will be going on.

Took the diff to Richard at Doritech today after shining recommendations and his attention to detail is great, very OCD like myself. He dismantled the diff in front of me and to both our horrors the diff had being jet washed inside, absolute idiots whoever did that. Fortunately nothing had corroded or rusted and as pretty much all the parts inside are getting replaced it will be more or less as new.

I've decided to stick with the stock M differential as for my use which is a road and track car it works well and the maintenance and longevity is good. I was very tempted by a carbonetics 1.5 way but it's an extra £1000 on the bill and comes with very high maintenance. So the LSD will be refreshed and then the diff put back together with new BMW Motorsport REM treated 3.91 ring and pinion along with all new seals and bearings.

Also awaiting the return of my converted to CSL spec ECU and steering wheel re-trim, at which point I can feedback on how car with map sensor runs and drive the car to Doritech to get the diff fitted.

That then just leaves the cage which Nick at Track-Tek informs me should be done by April.

What's next, not much, more cosmetic than game changer but a carbon roof would be nice along with looking at aero options and another set of lightweight 18x9 wheels to throw slicks on.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there


I was going to send my wheel of to Jack at Royals for a re-trim but even though feedback on the whole was excellent a few people had poor experiences on stitching quality. So when I heard that several people had sent their wheels to Lovatt and everyone was amazed at the quality I decided to send him my wheel.

Sent it last Thursday, was leather and worn, here is a poor picture of how it looked, I was stupid and did not take any before photos:-

Got the wheel back today so very quick turn around, just two working days and the quality is superb and it feels awesome, some pictures:

The quality is superb, I compared it to my Porsche Sport/GT3 wheel which is genuine and this feels as good if not better. Everything is spot on and for £170 is money well spent, once the obnoxious bright yellow cage is fitted the car will look very purposeful.

I know it's just a wheel and has no impact on the cars performance but changing the wheel in my 911 to Alcantera transformed the driving experience, so I can't wait to drive the M3 with this fitted. Fingers crossed the ECU will be back with me in a few days and then I can get the tune flashed to it for map sensor and I can report back on driving. Very happy, great work by Lovatt.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

Chucked the wheel on, refit is far easier and no fiddly airbag to remove, took like two minutes, some better pictures, very happy with results:

Looking forward to getting ECU back in and driving the car on the map sensor and fingers crossed diff will be in ready for end of March trackday at Donnington.

 

[Luke_Bowman]

Looks very smart inside now Gibbo.

'Minimalistic'

 

[Gibbo]

Looks very smart inside now Gibbo.

'Minimalistic'

Aye but a nice place to be, very happy to drive it daily and do long trips in it, essentially it is club sport spec, once rear cage is installed.

 

[Luke_Bowman]

Suspension and gear changes not too harsh for normal road use then?