Minicab caps in London

Soldato
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Agreed. It's tough and you can't do it all in one go.



Assuming this is true which I'm sure it is, this is a very under communicated aspect. This is the thing the black cabbie's should be protesting about!

Instead they are trying to block the path of a minicab company that just happens to be 1000x better than existing minicab firms (that have operated side-by-side with black cabs for many decades) and therefore represents real competition. No doubt about it, they're in a tough position so I can understand their frustrations.

Hackney Carriage Office is the regulatory body for black cabs. I'm not a cab driver myself but there are a few in the family and by the sounds of it they make life very difficult in the name of profit.

Cab drivers don't want to be driving around these terribly inefficient, uncomfortable lumps of metal but they legally have to drive them.

My understanding is they don't have a problem with mini cab firms in general just Uber. Black cabbies pay all this money yearly for the main benefit of having a meter, yet Uber just call it an app (come on, it's a meter) and they don't have to go through any of the hassle with the carriage office. This is why they are annoyed and I do sympathise with them.
 
Associate
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Bet uber avoids tax on it as well...

If you mean the drivers, quite the opposite... It's entirely cashless so all of it is 100% declared, no getting out of it.

Black cabbies on the other hand, either they all bought the most unreliable credit card machines known to man or something else is going on...
 
Caporegime
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I think uber should be banned or forced to change their business model for London under current regulations - they're operating under a private hire license but are using meters... they've got away with it by being in a grey area and claiming that because their meters use GPS and are not connected to the cab for metering purposes then they aren't actually meters... TFL has bought this line but it is rather dodgy in principle IMO and is just a loop hole in the intention of the legislation.

On the other hand private hire cabs don't need to be limited IMO, bus lanes ought to be allowed for them too. But I do think uber has taken the mickey a little bit... there were other private hire firms out there with smart phone apps but they stuck to fixed pricing in advance in accordance with the rules - Addison Lee etc.. they've been great before uber even appeared on the scene and have a smart phone app that can find your location, be used for booking/payment etc...

If a cabbie wants to moan about Addison Lee then I'll ignore them, if they want to moan about uber then they do partially have a point.

London has consistently had the best regarded taxi drivers in the world, private hire cars have their place but I don't think we want to completely kill the black cab industry... You'll end up with cabs only provided by a few large companies and the drivers getting low wages... Whereas individuals can take part in a meritocratic system, pass a comprehensive exam and earn the right to drive with a meter... and then work for themselves if they like.

Technically uber drivers and (I'm assuming) Addison Lee drivers are 'self employed' but it isn't really the same.
 
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Soldato
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I meant uber as a company not the drivers themselves. Although I would have thought black cabs would be scrutinised more due to needing a liscene to drive and the HMRC obviously knowing.
 
Caporegime
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Uber probably avoids tax. But you're right to point out that there's probably more evasion amongst black cabbies.

probably true

also it is only 25% of the fare that is potentially subject to that... I guess uber may pay some or no tax on depending how they want to mess around with IP ownership and legal entities

the uber drivers are taking the other 75% and it is documented then aside from using a bit of fuel for personal use while putting it down as a business expense there isn't much they can do to avoid/evade tax.
 
Soldato
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Black cabbies pay all this money yearly for the main benefit of having a meter, yet Uber just call it an app (come on, it's a meter) and they don't have to go through any of the hassle with the carriage office. This is why they are annoyed and I do sympathise with them.
So really they shouldn't be taking it out on Uber for their entrepreneurialism should they!?

And Uber runs on a meter? Really? As far as I knew your fare is set before the journey -- depending on distance, cabs available and traffic. That to me sounds far superior than being taken for a mug by some cabbie who wants to go the long way round to your destination or get stuck in roadworks etc. Having your fare set before a journey is not a meter!
 
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Soldato
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So really they shouldn't be taking it out on Uber for their entrepreneurialism should they!?

And Uber runs on a meter? Really? As far as I knew your fare is set before the journey -- depending on distance, cabs available and traffic. That to me sounds far superior than being taken for a mug by some cabbie who wants to go the long way round to your destination or get stuck in roadworks etc. And it's not a meter!

No, you get an estimate. It then tracks your journey and gives you the actual fare. This is what makes Uber different (and this is what's being argued).

Black cabbies have no problem with entrepreneurship but the entrepreneurs have to play by the rules.

As I said, they have never protested or had any problems with any other cab firm.
 
Soldato
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No, you get an estimate. It then tracks your journey and gives you the actual fare. This is what makes Uber different (and this is what's being argued).
I stand corrected, but I don't understand what the big deal over them 'metering' their service is, still? I have a gas meter, an electricity meter..
 
Caporegime
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Black cabbies have no problem with entrepreneurship but the entrepreneurs have to play by the rules.

As I said, they have never protested or had any problems with any other cab firm.

hmm nah they used to get upset with Addison Lee a lot, but Uber are the main issue for them these days

I stand corrected, but I don't understand what the big deal over them 'metering' their service is, still? I have a gas meter, an electricity meter..

and the people providing those meters are all quite strictly regulated

black cabs are strictly regulated and the people driving them have to pass a tough test - granted with sat nav that is becoming a bit less relevant but it shouldn't be discounted too much - London cabbies are regarded as the best in the world for a reason

the private hire cab market is regulated still but less strictly and has lower entry requirements - private hire cabs are not allowed to pick people up off the street and are not allowed to have meters - you go through an office by phone they radio the cap (or these days you just use an app)... the fare is fixed in advance - part of this is to stop you from getting ripped off... now the apps have pushed things a bit, you're technically booking the car in advance but you're basically calling a cab albeit on a slightly delayed basis... now uber is essentially using a meter too - they've basically got people driving the equivalent of black cabs but bypassing the actual requirements to get a license.

why is this an issue? Well perhaps it isn't too much for uber as it is at the moment, they don't number too many, black cabs still exist and they're a big company with no reason to scam you.... but it won't necessarily take long for someone else to construct a meter or provide an app other cabbies private hire cabs can use

there is already an issue with unlicensed/uninsured cabs/private hire cars in London, and even with some of the legit firms you really have to make sure you get the fare confirmed in advance - the idea that some of these firms could install their own custom meters and run their own version of dynamic/surge pricing is a real possibility.... I'm not sure I'd like the idea of Dodgy Dave and Amoral Abdul running a minicab firm complete with their own metering system and dynamic pricing.... while private hire firms can vary charges, it is harder to rip someone off if they give you a quote up front that you can easily decline

leave the meters to the properly regulated black cabs, private hire cars should be running on a fixed fare, we could easily end up with a 'taxi mafia' preying on tourists like some Eastern European countries if standards are relaxed too much... I'm not against competition and don't want to limit numbers but letting uber have meters is wrong, the black cab market is open to competition as it is and is very meritocratic but there is a high barrier to entry which makes it, currently, the best in the world
 
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Associate
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I'd rather be inside a comfy Toyota Prius at a cost that doesn't break the bank than be inside a black cab for double/triple/quadruple the price.

Who even uses black cabs these days? Rip off the lot of em, can only imagine tourists and the rich who use the service.
 

v0n

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Soldato
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One massive problem with London mini cabs is that neither Addison Lee nor (by design) Uber have any ramps or parking base for their fleets/drivers. Which means that while on duty, drivers just slowly cruise around causing traffic until their next call. That's tens of thousands extra vehicles blocking the streets and camping on yellow lines in front of every office building of Central London.
 
Associate
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It really is just an anti Uber law. If something is more reliable and the goverment aint making money from it, gotta shut it down.
 
Soldato
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I don't agree with artificially blocking Uber from expanding, but they need to play fair alongside the black cabs.

I've only taken a few Uber rides to be honest but they were universally rubbish. The first guy shouted at us for trying to hail a taxi outside a tube station in the west end, we should have gone somewhere quieter apparently. The second one needed to be directed because a sat-nav is all well and good on simple streets, but navigating the spider web that is London can challenge it.

I've taken a lot more black cabs but still had the odd problem. I told one guy to avoid Tower Bridge because I knew it was closed but he still drove up to it and tried to wait in traffic until it opened again. The row I had when it came to paying the fare! One guy got lost in Southwark as he didn't know where he was. We often have to direct then once we get into East London as it's outside the zone of the knowledge and they don't have sat-navs.

If you want to guarantee that you're going to get home and don't want to be shafted on price take the tube or a bus!
 
Soldato
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I've never understood why private hire vehicles or taxis or whatever can use bus lanes? Apart from you're paying for the privilege to be chauffeured to your destination in a vehicle by yourself, what's the difference with me driving my car?

I do feel for black cab drivers - they're kind of forced to be stuck in the correct way of doing it. Have you ever tried using sat nav in the middle of London? It flakes out more than it works. The Knowledge is a good thing but change is due.
 
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