Poll: EU Referendum Voting Intentions

[Bear]

Why can't we have zero import duty and no free movement of people?

Because the principle of free movement of goods and services includes people to supply such services.

 

[robfosters]

Well, let me ask you this question.
Why do we allow our own citizens to claim benefits without actually contributing first?
The only reason we can't enforce a delay on the EU nationals claiming benefits is that we have absolutely no delay or regulation on our own citizens.

Why should someone aged 16 be allowed to claim any sort of benefit just because they get pregnant and start a family they can't afford?

Why can one claim from what was 'national insurance' without contributing to such in the first place?

It isn't a solution, we can't stop such events occurring, but why have we at no point tried to mitigate against it?
Before bleeding hearts saying, I am going to take away form the poorest or the poor, those who can least afford, and so on, why would I be? I'd suggest we'd have significantly smaller amounts of young families, if they knew there wasn't going to be some form of penalty, and those who go from not bothering with education to immediately making themselves unemployable, if such benefits didn't exist, then they would very swiftly get into gainly training or education.

Then we wouldn't need to mitigate for those coming here, as they couldn't claim the benefits for the same period of time in the first place, why are we allowing our own to waste and claim in the first place?

I agree with you about people,paying in first I really do, but that is never going to happen in this country. It would end up a virtual humanitarian disaster with homeless teens and kids all over the place.

The fact is, immigrants coming to the UK and being eligible to the exact same benefits as a British citizens who's paid in for years is wrong to the core.

Why would you want that? My eldest is hoping to do part of his degree in germany and I'd like to retire to the mainland hassle free and I like buying stuff hassle free on amazon.de, pulling out of the eu will be a massively backwards step.

Yes, you may like to do that, but what about us who don't? We shouldn't stay in the EU just so people can travel about and live willy nilly. A very large portion of immigrants from the Eastern countries will choose the UK to live over all other countries, whereas the much smaller portion of UK emigrants will tend to scatter themselves wider, in places like, Spain, France, Italy, Germany. All bigger countries than the UK, with lower population density, yet the UK will continue to suffer higher immigration figures than it can possibly endure.

 

[scorza]

Interesting video of, what I think is a German satire show's take on a potential Brexit.

Just confirms my suspicions that the British pragmatic and logical view of the world is incompatible with the EU.

 

[robfosters]

Interesting video of, what I think is a German satire show's take on a potential Brexit.

Just confirms my suspicions that the British pragmatic and logical view of the world is incompatible with the EU.

Quite obvious that we are just expected to do as we're told with no arguments. That wasn't Satire, that was just a blatant ****take about what we give Europe from the country that has given Europe two world wars and the worst genocidal nutter in history.

Germany want to be the centre of the EU, they pretty much want to control it, and with it, us.

 

[StriderX]

Quite obvious that we are just expected to do as we're told with no arguments. That wasn't Satire, that was just a blatant ****take about what we give Europe from the country that has given Europe two world wars and the worst genocidal nutter in history.

Germany want to be the centre of the EU, they pretty much want to control it, and with it, us.

Well that was Britain's fault for not being at the forefront of the EU in the first place, how dare we profess anything after being fair-weather about this whole thing...

Two sides of this coin i'm afraid.

 

[robfosters]

Well that was Britain's fault for not being at the forefront of the EU in the first place, how dare we profess anything after being fair-weather about this whole thing...

Two sides of this coin i'm afraid.

So you're saying we just should roll over and bow to every EU demand?

 

[scorza]

Well that was Britain's fault for not being at the forefront of the EU in the first place, how dare we profess anything after being fair-weather about this whole thing...

Two sides of this coin i'm afraid.

Why would you expect the UK to be at the forefront of a project we fundamentally disagree with? The EU project will fail and I'd prefer it if the UK was as dis-integrated from it as possible when that happens.

 

[big_white_dog84]

Very heartening that even a very right leaning forum is heavily 'yes'.

 

[jkb]

Because the principle of free movement of goods and services includes people to supply such services.

And yet originally the EU was the common market which didn't include free movement of people. I can see no reason why there can't be zero duties on goods but no free movement of people.

 

[Burnsy2023]

Why would you expect the UK to be at the forefront of a project we fundamentally disagree with? The EU project will fail and I'd prefer it if the UK was as dis-integrated from it as possible when that happens.

It's interesting you keep using the royal "we" to indicate "your" views.

The video was interesting though, I think it highlights how little influence we have in Europe which isn't surprising how the UK always takes and never gives back.

 

[anything I don't mind]

Very heartening that even a very right leaning forum is heavily 'yes'.

lol right leaning forum, are we on the same forum?

I vote yes to leave the EU not yes to stay in.

I think though that the pro EU will always win because the EU will just spend £50 million on advertising and if it is a vote they don't like they just re do it.

 

[Tefal]

It's interesting you keep using the royal "we" to indicate "your" views.

The video was interesting though, I think it highlights how little influence we have in Europe which isn't surprising how the UK always takes and never gives back.

yeah give nothing back except for being the second biuggest net contributer the uk gives nothing at all.

seems like the bottom 5 which i think most would think "why the hell did we let them in" wipe out any positive contribution though.

i think though if you took on that graph everyone above cyprus and said we want free movement between these countries you wouldnt get any complaints either.

 

[robfosters]

Great graph which just goes to show how we put in while the nations who burden us with thousands of immigrants take out. Look at Polands debt for christ sake. It's not surprising their prime minister is putting the block on Camerons benefit reforms.

We're being mugged off.

 

[robfosters]

Ok, what about Spain and Poland?

 

[Tefal]

Where's that from? Does it have it adjusted for per capita contributions? I mean, our population is 65m-ish, compared with 10m for Sweden, 17m for the Netherlands, 5m for Finland, etc. Obviously we're closer to France and Germany, but most of the net contributors have a significantly smaller population than us.

If you do it on a per capita basis, just from a quick glance/VERY rough calculation in your head, our contribution isn't exactly stand-out...

bbc

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8036097.stm

7th by population net

 

[estebanrey]

Because the principle of free movement of goods and services includes people to supply such services.

Eh? So you think the free movement of goods and services was set up for market traders and window cleaners?

We can have zero duty/restrictions on BMWs being imported here without the need to allow Germans unfettered immigration rights to come and live here.

You seem to be under the impression that EU goods are only here because the countries that make them have physically sent over a team of employees to set up a factory to make them on UK soil.

 

[Superficial]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union#Net_contributors_and_recipients

I think those are from 2009.

"Net receipts from the EU budget, based on 2009 budget data"

In fact that page appears to have stats from different years.

EDIT: oh I can see I'm too late and this has been recognised above, sorry

In any case, for me at least, it's not actually about the amounts (by national standards these amounts are very small) it's about the principal

When i see how countries like Spain are STILL taking money from the EU after all this time and how corporate tax schemes like those run in Luxembourg and Ireland took so long to be looked at (in no small part due to the British btw) it makes me despair - the EU/single market rules should not have been manipulated like this imo.

 

[Orionaut]

I vote to leave.

I do not feel the need to justify this, It is simply how I feel.

If there are downsides, I am content to accept them and move on with a sense of freedom that I might not previously have had.

 

[dalehitchy1]

I vote to leave.

I do not feel the need to justify this, It is simply how I feel.

If there are downsides, I am content to accept them and move on with a sense of freedom that I might not previously have had.

And this is why I wish people knew a certain amount of info about the EU before voting. The amount of people that say "its just how I feel" and "there are no benefits at all" .... I read on the daily mail all the tine "we need to control our borders.... Lets leave the EU and join EEA and still get free trade"

Ermmm no.... EEA still has free movement. Anyway... I think its quite selfish to say "if there are downsides ill move on...." When there would be a whole generation of young people that would loose many opportunities.

 

[Mynight]

While I'm still on the fence about leaving(most likely stay) I would argue that if we left there would still be just as many opportunities as before. Leaving the EU doesn't mean we close our borders to everything. It would go on pretty much as it always has.

Although we may lose a few companies until I see how much tax they didn't pay I can't tell if it's a loss or not.

I would love to see facts and figures of an in vs out outcome yet that will never happen.

Edit: If those graphs up there are correct I would prefer to see EU membership only with countries akin to the powerhouses at the top. There seems to be little gain to inviting poorer countries.