Which of these tyres?

[ShiWarrior]

well I had good year fast response and they were brilliant, I think they are in the same league as the goodyear efficient grips, but the sport maxx ones are the next level up, so better than the efficient grips, but they might be more for hot conditions, so not good for all year round ?

 

[snapdragon69]

After several years of watching https://youtu.be/ryEgXuzAQMU?t=321
I would say after discounting parking shunts and the like, ~90% of loss-of-grip crashes are due to loss of grip on the rear and ~10% the front (unable to stop in a straight line and hitting car in front). So many are cause by swerving due to outside influence and then swerving back and losing the rear end in a spin, often followed by a roll.

 

[Millwall.FC]

Dunlop sp's are crap, I wasn't massively impressed with the sportmaxx but to be fair that was on the back of the 330 and I dont remember thinking they were awful by any means

The Mrs fiesta has v12 evo's on it, quite happy with them

Outside of the rubbish sp's i:d expect they will be much of a muchness, probably wouldnt go for those specific pirellis but the hankooks, sportmaxx and goodyears are all decent if they are in same price bracket.

My Mazda 6 2.5 petrol that came with dunlops sp's and I'm not too fond of them either they grip well in the wet but not too impressed in the dry. Not very hard to make them spin or squeel could be different on the diesel though. I'll probably get hankooks when they wear out had them on my last car and was impressed.

 

[Dolph]

This is exactly what you shouldn't do. Have the front's replaced but then have the garage do a front to back rotation so that your new rubber is on the rear and your older stuff at the front.

As much as you might think you need the grip at the front unexpected under steer is much easier to control and react to than unexpected over steer caused by the back letting go in a car where you would just never expect that to occur. With having the worse rubber on the front if you do find the front letting go all you need to do is lift off the acceleration and carefully apply the brakes and your saved. By the time you act to feeling the back let go with really worn rear rubber your likely facing the wrong way already.

Given that the front wheels do all the steering, all the drive and 80-90% of braking force, I would disagree with you. The main reason this advice comes in is because many drivers react in the wrong way to oversteer in a fwd car, but this is like arguing you should keep your knives blunt so when you get it wrong you won't cut yourself as badly, ignoring the fact that you are making it much easier to get it wrong in the first place.

 

[Rizo-UK]

V12 K120's on my A8 quattro, 9,000 miles and still on 4mm. I drive and corner hard.
Excellent in the dry, A little tale happy in the wet/damp now they are getting lower.

 

[BinnsY]

Given that the front wheels do all the steering, all the drive and 80-90% of braking force, I would disagree with you. The main reason this advice comes in is because many drivers react in the wrong way to oversteer in a fwd car, but this is like arguing you should keep your knives blunt so when you get it wrong you won't cut yourself as badly, ignoring the fact that you are making it much easier to get it wrong in the first place.

It's not just me your disagreeing with, it's the same advice given by the big motoring organisations like the AA. http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/car-tyres.html and the tyre makers themselves like Michelen. http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/learn-share/care-guide/ten-tyre-care-tips.

You hit the nail on the head as to why this is so. "Many drivers react the wrong way to oversteer in a fwd car". That's the exact reasons why you should always have the best grip on the rear. Most drivers will have never experienced oversteer, ever, not once. The worst possible time for you to first experience it is when you slam on the brakes for an emergency stop. You already have less grip on the rear due to those being the worse tyres, then as your brake the grip naturally transfers to the front because of weight transfer meaning your less grippy tyres have even less grip and suddenly the rear of the car is trying to overtake the front. This effect will be massively amplified if you are making even a gentle turn causing an almost guarenteed spin.

If you are 100% expecting it then in theory you could apply some opposite lock to counter this, but generally speaking when the conditions that cause that kind of loss of grip occur you simply wouldn't be expecting it and the average FWD family hatchback isn't designed to pull of 'Tokyo' drifts.

In short, stick with keeping your new rubber on the rear.

 

[Dolph]

But the other side of the argument is whether a car that breaks away at 55mph on a given bend in one fashion is inherently safer than one which breaks away in a different t fashion but remains stable until 80mph.

Or in simpler terms, is an easier to recover but more frequent loss of control safer on average than a more difficult to recover but infrequent loss of control.

 

[ianh]

Dolph - Just to be clear you're saying major motoring organisations (AA, RAC etc), the people who make the tyres (Michelin, Pirelli etc), garages that fit tyres (Kwik-fit, F1 Autocentres etc) AND tyre safety campaigners (tyresafe.org) are all completely wrong, but you are right?

I know putting it that way may makes me sound like I'm having a pop but thats how *what you're saying* comes across.

 

[BinnsY]

But the other side of the argument is whether a car that breaks away at 55mph on a given bend in one fashion is inherently safer than one which breaks away in a different t fashion but remains stable until 80mph.

Or in simpler terms, is an easier to recover but more frequent loss of control safer on average than a more difficult to recover but infrequent loss of control.

But there's no basis to your side of the argument. Having less grip on the front doesn't inheriently make it more likely that you will loose control than less grip on the rear. You could loose grip in either setup but the consequeneces of loosing rear grip are often worse.

You're also forgetting the fact that under hard cornering or braking weight is being transfered onto those front tyres effectively giving them extra grip anyway.

This is why every major company / tyre manufacture / road safety people suggest putting the best rubber on the rear.

 

[crinkleshoes]

You missed a tyre that's in similar price range to the ones you mentioned...

Continental SportContact 5... fantastic tyres, great wet performance and rim protection also.

 

[crinkleshoes]

*I'd put the new tyres on the powered axle

Front for FWD vehicles, Rear for RWD vehicles and Rear for 4WD vehicles.

But that's because I know how those types of cars handle with those configurations and I've tested them on the limit & know what they'll do.

Car/tyre manufacturers' reasoning is because it is preferable for people to have a head-on collision as there is more impact protection than sideways... so I'd say both of your reasonings are correct... only for different reasons and different driving abilities/knowledge.

Someone who is competant behind the wheel, can stick with my configurations... your average (or worse) driver should always stick the new rubber on the rear.

I strongly dislike understeer, especially in a scenario where I could avoid trouble if something went wrong by having front-end control... in a FWD vehicle, I'd definitely want that extra grip on the front. But that's me & not what i'd recommend for everyone.

 

[BinnsY]

In all honesty I'm not sure I would even agree with that. If your on a track and want to experience pushing your car to the limit then yes it makes sense and you can have a bit of fun with it. But no matter how talented a driver you are (or think you are) the kind of circumstances that cause you to loose grip on normal road driving are not really the best time to be testing your ability to deal with lift off oversteer.

 

[muon]

Given that the front wheels do all the steering, all the drive and 80-90% of braking force, I would disagree with you. The main reason this advice comes in is because many drivers react in the wrong way to oversteer in a fwd car, but this is like arguing you should keep your knives blunt so when you get it wrong you won't cut yourself as badly, ignoring the fact that you are making it much easier to get it wrong in the first place.

Oversteer in a FWD car is very difficult to correct, especially in the wet. Understeer is unlikely to result in an accident, especially as you can easily take corrective action.

I know where I'd want to keep the better grip if I have the option. I sometimes corner very fast and understeer because the surface is unexpectedly poor, but that isn't as unnerving as driving at 70mph on a dual carriageway in the wet round the bend and then you suddenly have to take avoiding braking action or have to lift off.

 

[BDEE]

Interesting points of argument.

I talked it through with the guy at the garage, who instantly said "Are these going on the rear?" and having discussed the car and the remaining two tyres he confirmed the best option was to put the new rubber on the FRONT. It's a FWD car. The old tyres on the front would NOT have put my car in a good situation - The old tyres, which came on it when I bought it from the dealer, are a much harder compound tyre (they are landsails) and whilst still legal (just) are providing no grip, hence why I needed the change. They have also worn unevenly so one is much worse than the other, so I have one with 5mm tread somehow, despite them doing 30k and one with about 2.5mm - I want to get another 2 months out of them before I put on another pair of the Sport Maxx...... which will go on the rear, leaving the ones that went on this week on the front.



Eitherway of what people think, the result is awesome - I had massive understeer before and constantly felt like i was on ice with wheelspin at low revs and a general feeling of the next corner being the last....... REALLY impressed with the dry weather performance of the tyre - It feel glued to the road - Can't wait to have them on all 4. Not had any rain yet so cant comment on the wet performance yet.


I did consider the Conti's - I generally dislike Conti tyres, as every time I have had them in the past they have seriously underperformed in terms of mileage (sport contact 2's / 3's that I've had before) and so I am yet to be won over - Also seen others with SC5's who have had questionable mileage.

 

[Antony101]

I have ContiSportContact 5's on my A3 from the factory and they are great, buying them for the mileage is stupid. Buy a good set of tyres that will keep you on the road. Tyres, like brakes should be an area of your car you shouldn't penny pinch on, they are there to keep you on the road and stop you having an accident.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

New tyres on front? Talking crap really. Today in the UK is testimate as to why you want the tyre with better water clearing ability at the rear. Front tyres tend to give more warning as they approach grip threshold. Ie steering feel and traction control lights etc. You then develop an intuition for the car handling.... When you find the rears have found their limit you're, generally, much deeper into an accident.

New on rear of a road car.
The end.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

I need this size on our Countryman so probably need to stick with run flat. Tempted by P7 to replace the Bridgetone HP Dueller.

 

[Rambaud]

New tyres on rear - irrespective of fwd/rwd.

If it were to come to court (after an accident), the onus would be on you to justify the reverse - i.e. on the front axle - as all the tyre manufacturers go for rear fitting.

 

[Haggisman]

I had those hankooks on the front of my 2002 Mazda 6 sport, (215/44/17) I wouldn't recommend them at all, very soft sidewalls, car felt like it was floating and disconnected, changed for the Kumhos I have on the moment and its a massive improvement

 

[BinnsY]

Interesting points of argument.

I talked it through with the guy at the garage, who instantly said "Are these going on the rear?" and having discussed the car and the remaining two tyres he confirmed the best option was to put the new rubber on the FRONT. It's a FWD car. The old tyres on the front would NOT have put my car in a good situation - The old tyres, which came on it when I bought it from the dealer, are a much harder compound tyre (they are landsails) and whilst still legal (just) are providing no grip, hence why I needed the change. They have also worn unevenly so one is much worse than the other, so I have one with 5mm tread somehow, despite them doing 30k and one with about 2.5mm - I want to get another 2 months out of them before I put on another pair of the Sport Maxx...... which will go on the rear, leaving the ones that went on this week on the front.

You really seem to have misread what many of us here are trying to say. N oone ws suggesting you keep your crap front tyres and have the ones currently on the rear replaced. Especially if the old fronts were almost at the legal minimum. I'll try and explain the method you should use again.

You have the lowest depth tyres replaced on a matching axle. If this happens to be your rear tires, job done they are the ones you change. If your front tires are the lowest of the 4 you have the front tires changed, exactly the same. However, once the tires have been changed at the front, you then take all 4 wheels off the car and have them rotated. If your tires are directional you have swap the two on the left around, and then the two on the right around. If they aren't directional you swap the front left with rear right and then the front right with rear left. Keep in mind this is swapping the entire wheel, so you are replacing the tires you need replacing but then having the entire wheel along with it's new tire moved on the car.

This way you are always changing the tires that need changing, but once the new tires are on you are moving the best and most grippy rubber to the rear.

Please don't add fuel on the fire that because a tyre fitter says they should go on the front that this is the best advice. Numerous road safety groups, motoring organizations, and crucially, the tyre manufacturers themselves all disagree with this